long angry rant about stuff.

[Bandalero]

maybe i should repeat this:

Sadamn was a threat to a US interest (Kuwait) and Bush Sr. Had to deal with him.

Right after Clinton was elected Sadamn did a few things that were a little shaddy (Remove UN inspectors) and he had to fire a few misiles at Iraq.

Now that Bush Jr. is in office Sadamn is still up to his tricks...take a good guess at what's comming?

every new president has to deal with Sadamn because he always tests them out to see if they will uphold UN laws and resolutions. Jr. is going after this guy all out, because we are all sick and tired of his stupid little tests.

[Corey]

I've been wanting it for a decade, let alone a year.

[Corey]

That's another thing. I'm sick of hearing how Bush won't comply with the UN. Clinton flat out didn't even consult the UN before he started bombing civilians.

[Brooklin Matt]

Doug, yes, I KNOW you don't know everything.......but you have claimed, or was it your brother that your moral code along the lines of objectivism is the best path. I assumed that you would want more people to follow it, not for them to follow you. I don't know the best path either.........we agree on that.

here's my opinion on a few things.......feel free to provide opinion. I would like to learn as much as possible about the upcoming war because I haven't really busted my ass to know the facts. And that's damn important. It feels like a lot of conjecture and guessing......

Drug cartels are about drugs and money (basically degrades society)........."real", such as the one in Iraq is about preserving peace, getting rid of a somewhat manical dictator, and hopefully diarming a country that poses a threat to the United States and countries in proximity to Iraq. Where war would actually prevent more deaths from happening in the future and contribute to a safer global village (rosy coloured glasses are on) I think its hard to equate the two. yes, people will die..........it happens all the fucking time in Africa through disease and famine created by economic marginalization caused by capitalism..........I mean if its about money......you could consider big business the biggest murderers of all. these people just don't get a bullet in the head. They starve and suffer while people turn a blind eye in the name of free enterprise.

Now I realize the war in Iraq could be about oil, Bush being gung-ho, etc.......and all those reasons for war are bullshit.......innocent people are going to die......no question.....I guess I want to know is, when the war is over, will America do a fucking good job of helping Iraqi people achieve a better standard of living after totally raping their country?? And is America going in for the right reasons..........I don't know........and when you mention drug cartels it gives me an eerie feeling that Bush is just the leader of one great big one.

[Bandalero]

I guess I want to know is, when the war is over, will America do a fucking good job of helping Iraqi people achieve a better standard of living after totally raping their country??

Raping their country? I'm not so sure about that chief.

Look at Japan today, it's the result of Truman nukeing them. right after the war the US sent economist to that country and built a solid financial foundation that makes them one of the world's better markets.

Look at Germany Post WWII. not so bright, so i guess what it comes down to is...it depends. It depends on if they are willing to take the help we give them.

[areusad831]

it depends how long we decide to assist them until we find another country we want to take down.

[mosaik]

this war is more about advancing amerikas politics on the globe then it is about disarming saddam or putting an end to his "games"

america's played just as many games as iraq. they flip their foriegn policy all the time - have we forgotten who funded iraq's rise to power in the eighties?

can you war advocates not at least admit the possiblity that there is more to this then saddam being a bad man?

[Corey]

yes, I can.

[Brooklin Matt]

Indeed, rape is a strong word....but I can't think of another word for a country that asks its citizens to rise up, and then leaves them out to dry. Conditions in Iraq are terrible because of American bombings, and the economic restrictions led to shit all being done for Hamad Q. Iraqi.....Saddam can easily be blamed for this.......but shouldn't have America just taken his ass out of power........and instead of doing that left that country largely pissed off and economically broken. Why didn't Saddam get ousted then.........

[the android]

how can you people actively support a government which has been caught lying to you repeadetly about matters of life and death?

I've been wondering about that, too.

[Brooklin Matt]

Yes Doug, I agree with that assertion.......I am skeptical about the American government because they have done it before......They talk a lot about peace, but I think its more about being assured in their own dominance and economic status........I'm sure those are factors in their decision.

I am not all against war, but I don't support it either...........I hate taking the middle ground.....its somewhat wimpy........but I can't convince myself totally what is the best method.......

[Corey]

Indeed, rape is a strong word....but I can't think of another word for a country that asks its citizens to rise up, and then leaves them out to dry. Conditions in Iraq are terrible because of American bombings, and the economic restrictions led to shit all being done for Hamad Q. Iraqi.....Saddam can easily be blamed for this.......but shouldn't have America just taken his ass out of power........and instead of doing that left that country largely pissed off and economically broken. Why didn't Saddam get ousted then.........

The US only had permission from the Senate to clear the threat of invasion from Kuwait. The military was never cleared to take out Saddam. Forces were pulled days before a planned attack that would've put an end to Hussein.

[Brooklin Matt]

sigh...........and that decision was somewhat of a big mistake.....it sounds nice and everything, but just seemed to neglect the situation for everyone living there. But I guess it was a war so its Iraq's problem........I mean, Saddam gets to sleep in his palace while his people get to take all the damage.....its hard man............its just hard to watch one man basically use all of his people........when all we really need his him out of power. It would have been a lot better today if it was thought about back then.

[mosaik]

Matt, if you need convincing that this war is the wrong way to go here it is: half a million iraqi soldiers and civillians will die within the first 48 hours of the US "shock and awe" bombing campaign. it will be one of the sloppiest military campaigns in the history of the world. no matter what the war hawks (:P) tell you, military targets will not be the only thing hit, and they won't be the only thing aimed at.

from rumsfields own mouth, the first 48 hours are about devastating the iraq landscape and putting the "fear of god" into the iraqi armed forces. the us will aim for MAXIMUM casualties.

tell me you believe that saddam hussein is such a threat to world peace that it's worth the cost of a half million human souls. tell me that the american government has convinced you.

that goes for any of you. believe it or not, i desperately want to understand this. somebody tell me why the murder of a half million men, women and children is right.

[nelison]

Honestly I think if this was a war to help "free the citizens from a horrible dictator who may possess weapons of mass destruction" shouldn't they be more worried more about N. Korea? I mean they've already admitted to developing Nuclear weapons, and they oppress their citizens just as bad as Saddam does.
Thats why I think there's more too it than just that.
1. Oil - Bush comes from an oil background, it's what got him here and if he can take control of a country who is a major supplier of oil in the world it can benefit him a great deal. Think about it, he puts in a democratic govt in Iraq when the war is gone but because he did this for Iraq, they must let him have access to the oil in return. Another notable observation is that more that the majority of members in Bush's cabinet are from oil backgrounds as well...
also take a look here
or here
2. Korea - seems like they're more interested in keeping these guys around... look at This

3. And finally, we must not forget how Senior Bush couldn't get the job done, therefore little Bush has gotta try and make a name for himself (other than through his lack of intelligence) and while he's at it .... http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/22/1032055033082.html

I know these are pretty obvious facts... sorry if they're a little too obvious but I just felt compelled to mention them....

[Brooklin Matt]

Damn bombs............I guess I will be like everyone else in the world glued to CNN watching the bombs hit......All my friends said Bush sounded quite firm in his address.....almost crazy.....

[Narbus]

1. "Amerikan?" Why the K? I don't get it.
2. You're failing to realize where these people (the ones who want to rule African countries and be dictators) are coming from. Here is a bit of Hussein's past. He was raised in a militarily-minded time and place. It's what he knew. You are underestimating the role that environment plays in creating personalities. Just because you don't like the idea of ruling doesn't mean others hate it too.
3. Many people feel that Hussein has made it a "you or us" situation. If he does have these weapons, then it really is. It is the role of the US government to protect it's people, and in a you or us situation, the government will pick us. It's what governments do.

[faninor]

I'm glad Doug can get the statistics before they happen. That could have helped out with our elections a few years ago . . .

and America with a K is a hippie tradition.
"America
Now,
Before the napalm-scorched earth
Consumes the blood of would-be fathers
And have-been sons
Of
Daughters spread-eagled
And mothers on the run.
Reflect.
See what you've become,
Amerika."

Of course, that "poetry" is almost complete BS.

[mosaik]

the poetry is bang on.

and i say it for me, it's got nothing to do with the fucking hippies.

shut the fuck up about my numbers, go ahead and do a search and you'll find a thousand sites supporting them. watch the godamn tube in a week and see if you can dispute them then.

[Narbus]

the poetry is bang on.

and i say it for me, it's got nothing to do with the fucking hippies.

No, no, I smell hippies.
The jist of the poem: AmeriCa was a beautiful place founded on freedom and love and now it's AmeriKa, which is a horrible warmongering place to live.
Of course, this is totally neglecting the whole "slavery is legal," "women are meant to cook and have babies," and "white is right" bits that the nation was also founded on. Blah, blah, bitchcakes.

Drop the K thing. It's moronic, and does nothing to help you out. Unless you want to be grouped with the few "special" people who honestly think that doing something as mundane as changing a single letter of a word actually means a cup of rat's piss in any way at all.

Oh, and do a search. You'll find a thousand sites that support the notion that vampires are real, the Illuminati control the Earth, and we are living in the end times. Yipty shit. If it actually happens, then it actually happens.