Yes, I do respect her, although she and I usually disagree on politics (she's very right-wing, I'm very left). Still, I recognize a good argument when I see one. Perhaps it is because we know each other and are friends that she didn't feel the need to throw around insults or condescension, just the facts.
I know I'm guilty of just as much bullshit and name-calling as anyone else in these discussions; it goes with the territory when people start getting defensive and taking things personally.
So I apologize for that kind of immature behavior. Could we proceed with respect and facts and intelligent debate, rather than degrading ourselves by being defensive asses?
If this is what you want your future to be like...
Corey wrote:did you ever stop and think that maybe affirmative action breeds racism?
Simply put bro, but exactly it! I can't believe that you actually think AA is about equality and actually helps more than it hurts. If this was the case, the entire Cass Lake Band of Ojibwae Indians in Cass Lake, Minnesota would probably be stealing decent jobs from us well brought up folks that didn't have it ANYWHERE near as hard as them.
What's the case with them? Nope. They are all basically stuck on the reservation with nothing but dead end jobs. Most of them living off of welfare and money that (of course - the casino!) brings in. Most of the houses that I saw while taking a tour of the reservation don't even have enough money to plant grass on their lawns.
This is only one reason how it sickens me that somebody could actually think AA is doing more good than bad.
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
We (in vernon, bc) don't have the same problems with racism against backs here, but we do against natives. One of the biggest problems in the native community is that in the past, and even now, is that young native kids DON'T have a lot of positive native role models. There is an extremely high rate of alchol and drug abuse, and a high amount of people on welfare.
At my school, there are countless programs to help native students. I dnt have any problems with these programs only being for natives, because frankly, they need it. I dont think its fair to say that ALL natives come from backgrounds where they need this help, but the honest truth is a lot of them do. I also recognize that there are other students of other races that come from simular backgrounds and need help, but beleve me, any sort of positive support for natives in the community is good for EVERYONE.
sorry for not being able to contribute much in the affermative action area, but i ony know 3 black people personally, and they happen to be my siblings
At my school, there are countless programs to help native students. I dnt have any problems with these programs only being for natives, because frankly, they need it. I dont think its fair to say that ALL natives come from backgrounds where they need this help, but the honest truth is a lot of them do. I also recognize that there are other students of other races that come from simular backgrounds and need help, but beleve me, any sort of positive support for natives in the community is good for EVERYONE.
sorry for not being able to contribute much in the affermative action area, but i ony know 3 black people personally, and they happen to be my siblings
Your insight is true, Yannic, but yes of course that really doesn't fit into the AA type of discussion. The programs you have there exist here too, and I honestly think its fantasic if you have the progams there, especially if its not on an actual reservation. In the states, thats where you typically find them........if the heads of the tribes start them up.
My parents (I was an only child) are now permanent foster parents for 6 all native kids. 5 of the 6 are biological brother and sister, and the other one they took in about a year later....but the other 5 were already good friends with her, so it worked really well.
It's amazing what these kids get to do.......my oldest foster sister, who's just turned 10, gets to go to freakin space camp in Oklahoma this summer because of a essay contest she won, which is sponsored by the tribe.
Those programs are amazing........but none the less that all doesn't fit into affirmative action and I just wasted my time telling all of this to ya's.
My parents (I was an only child) are now permanent foster parents for 6 all native kids. 5 of the 6 are biological brother and sister, and the other one they took in about a year later....but the other 5 were already good friends with her, so it worked really well.
It's amazing what these kids get to do.......my oldest foster sister, who's just turned 10, gets to go to freakin space camp in Oklahoma this summer because of a essay contest she won, which is sponsored by the tribe.
Those programs are amazing........but none the less that all doesn't fit into affirmative action and I just wasted my time telling all of this to ya's.
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
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happening fish
- Posts: 17934
- Joined: 3/17/2002, 11:22 am
Just so this doesn't get thrown back at me......here's the webpage to my band of natives.
http://www.indians.state.mn.us/leech.html
First sentence: The Leech Lake Reservation is located in north central Minnesota in the counties of Beltrami, Cass, Hubbard, and Itasca.
Thank you very much, and g'nite.
http://www.indians.state.mn.us/leech.html
First sentence: The Leech Lake Reservation is located in north central Minnesota in the counties of Beltrami, Cass, Hubbard, and Itasca.
Thank you very much, and g'nite.
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Niccoló Machiavelli
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Solidarity 9-6347
- Posts: 1960
- Joined: 3/13/2002, 6:14 pm
- Location: Ann Barbor, MI
- Contact:
Aerin wrote:Okay, all you anti-AAers, I may just have changed my opinion on the issue. Take a lesson from this argument, because it might help you improve yours in the future. I was just talking to my buddy on AIM about this, and here's what she had to say:
"See I agree that [racism] still exists quite a bit but I dont feel that aa is at all the right way to get it dealt with. It just creates more anger and doesn't really get much done. You need laws that allow for suits to be brought against people for discrimination easily...but aa doesnt do the job well for any parties involved."
Why is this a sound, good, and convincing argument?
1. It doesn't attack anyone personally.
2. It doesn't blindly assume that racism and other hatreds don't exist, just because they shouldn't.
3. It offers an alternative to AA that is viable and not some utopian fantasy
4. It's short, sweet, and to the point.
That, my friends, is a good argument. Take heed.
i personally dont believe in race-based AA as i stated previously in this thread but i dont think that legislation making it really easy to sue on the grounds of descrimination is the answer. you have to consider the amount of cases that would come about where one person is in fact not smart enough to get into their choice college and they get pissed and sue. if the university lost the case, not only would they have to raise tuition for the other students making it suck for everyone (and eventually lead back to race-based affirmative action), but they would also be very cautious about whether or not to kick him out if he was failing due to his incompetence. this again would give the kid an insubstantiated edge over the other students.
<3 Mademoiselle Pamplemousse
~The world would be a better place if only more things were made out of statue~
~The world would be a better place if only more things were made out of statue~
that won't work because you'll start forming clans. clans are going to start fighting each other and nothing productive is going to get achived. some men are just born followers and will do what anyone close to them will do.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
all humans think, how many think productively? those who don't think productively tend to abandon the thinking process and do what other people are doing in order to survive, no one is going to think on their own until they die off, they adapt. doing what others do in order to survive is adapting.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
crystal baller wrote:right, it is.
the ones who survive the best will be the rational ones.
If only it were so. I'd like to be an idealist and believe that, but I've got thousands of years of human history erring on the side of human cruelty and stupidity. These things never change, merely change form.