If this is what you want your future to be like...

[One-Eye]

I admit that I live a pretty sheltered life. I grew up in a pretty liberal, though religious family. I go to a very liberal school on the west-coast, which is almost entirely leftist. I see real hatred only in the abstract: in the news, on TV, in history books. I've never truly been discriminated against because I am a woman, or because I'm an atheist - I do occasionally get ignorant remarks, but these usually lead to respectful and intelligent discussions, not to outright hate. I've never seen my black friends be called "n***er" or be discriminated against based on race. I've never seen my gay uncles or friends called "f***ot" or be banned from anyplace because of their orientation. I know such things go on, but as I said, I've never witnessed it first-hand.

But today, I came across some very disgusting material on the internet, in the form of some guy's LiveJournal. I know that this one instance of hate shouldn't have had such a profound effect on me, but it did. I'm pretty active in the LJ community, and I discovered this guy in a reply he made to a post in an atheist community. He made a lot of disgusting remarks about atheists and gays - a lot of blanket statements and a lot of hate speech. I was silly enough to let his remarks piss me off to the point where I made an equally nasty reply. Then, wondering what this person was really like, I checked out his personal journal.

Bad idea. His profile consisted of this quote:

"If it is "racist" to prefer the company of people of one's race, to prefer the culture created by one's race, and to want one's race to survive and flourish, then virtually everyone of every color is "racist," and the term has no useful meaning."

When I looked at his actual journal, it got worse. Nearly every post was bigoted. He hates feminists and says that a woman's place is "in the kitchen" and that his rights are stomped on by women getting too much power and respect in the workplace and other areas of life. But he has no problem posting disgusting pornographic pictures of women. Apparently, we only exist to clean his house and let him fuck us; if we make any claim to being an actual person, it stomps on his "rights".

He then moved on to discuss blacks and Asians, which he called many disgusting names and said things like, "sure, I know a couple of good black people, but 95% of them are *insert derogatory language here* and we would all benefit if the entire race were wiped out."

He moves on to gays, in which he describes being "hit on" by a "f***ot", and how he told this person off in no uncertain terms, stating his heterosexuality and the evils, horrors, and inherent "wrongness" of homosexuality. However, he had no qualms about jacking off to pornographic pictures he posted of two women kissing.

I shouldn't have been surprised by this sort of thing, but it really did affect me. I realized that in this person's eyes, I was nothing but a dishwasher and walking vagina - although probably not even that, as I don't match his seeming ideal of blonde, shaved, pierced, anorexic women. I realized that he wants to "wipe out" me and every other atheist (and non-Christian, and non-white) in the world, just for not being like him. And he's not the only one like this. It made me physically sick and very depressed.

So all you people voting conservative - I just hope you know who you're sharing a party with. When you deny homosexuals the right to marry, when you try to put religion into the public arena, when you try to get rid of affirmative action, when you deny women the right to choose what to do with their bodies, you are moving your country step by step closer to this man's hate-filled "utopia". I just hope you realize that next time you vote conservative. Behind the rhetoric and the "moral rectitude" of conservative politics is pure hatred and intolerance - the desire to make everyone have your morals, have your beliefs, look and act and feel like you, and if they can't or they refuse, to obliterate them.

I don't think I can go back to the way I looked at the world before. I am really, really scared for America and for the world.

[mosaik]

Behind the rhetoric and the "moral rectitude" of conservative politics is pure hatred and intolerance - the desire to make everyone have your morals, have your beliefs, look and act and feel like you, and if they can't or they refuse, to obliterate them.

behind the rhetoric of all politics, there is only hate and control, the desire to make everyone have your morals, have your beliefs, look and act and feel like you, and if they can't or they refuse, to obliterate them.

conservative, liberal, it makes no difference. none. i don't think this guy is a good example of a conservative, i think he is an extreme. but can't we both agree that everybody would be better off if this guy had absolutely no say in how we live our lives?

no say. not even the amount of control given to him by one vote.

[Corey]

So all you people voting conservative - I just hope you know who you're sharing a party with. When you deny homosexuals the right to marry, when you try to put religion into the public arena, when you try to get rid of affirmative action, when you deny women the right to choose what to do with their bodies, you are moving your country step by step closer to this man's hate-filled "utopia". I just hope you realize that next time you vote conservative. Behind the rhetoric and the "moral rectitude" of conservative politics is pure hatred and intolerance - the desire to make everyone have your morals, have your beliefs, look and act and feel like you, and if they can't or they refuse, to obliterate them.

I find it very disgusting that you would make this generalization.

Which is more racist? Believing everyone is equal and giving them equal treatment or treating them like handicaps and supporting something like Affirmative action like your liberal buddies?

You're no better than the guy who wrote those journal entries.

[starvingeyes]

So all you people voting conservative - I just hope you know who you're sharing a party with. When you deny homosexuals the right to marry, when you try to put religion into the public arena, when you try to get rid of affirmative action, when you deny women the right to choose what to do with their bodies, you are moving your country step by step closer to this man's hate-filled "utopia". I just hope you realize that next time you vote conservative. Behind the rhetoric and the "moral rectitude" of conservative politics is pure hatred and intolerance - the desire to make everyone have your morals, have your beliefs, look and act and feel like you, and if they can't or they refuse, to obliterate them.

logical fallacy: straw man.

not only is this individual not a good representative of the conservative idealology, he himself probably disavows the movement. i doubt that conservatives wish to be associated with him, or that he wishes to be associated with them.

that aside, yes, he is ignorant, and yes, he is hateful. however, the condition of hate is not unique to the right wing. gender feminists, for example, hate men. some militant racial or religious groups hate whites. communists hate rich people.

as doug said, all politics are this way. your beliefs are, at the core, no different.

[Neil]

I have to agree with Corey in this one........the problem with many liberals is they think that the conservative party folks have nothing better to do but merely make the world only what appears to be "a better place for us, and not for you", but that's completely not the case.
Again, agreeing with Corey, why would you want to stand by and support Affirmative Action while there are worthwhile folks getting denied experiences?? Texas school systems offers automatic enrollment to the top state colleges AUTOMATICALLY if you're in the mere top ten percent of your graduating class, leaving somebody who is in the top 12% in the "sorry but you're not as smart" catagory.

I think a problem with many liberals is that they blame the country's mistake on the conservative party. Should we sit down and think of what the country would be like if Al Sharpton got elected? I'm all for finally having an African American president, but I'd be ashamed if he gets more than fifteen percent of the general votes.

You'll think of me even less but come July I'm working on Bush's branch here, locally.......

[One-Eye]

So all you people voting conservative - I just hope you know who you're sharing a party with. When you deny homosexuals the right to marry, when you try to put religion into the public arena, when you try to get rid of affirmative action, when you deny women the right to choose what to do with their bodies, you are moving your country step by step closer to this man's hate-filled "utopia". I just hope you realize that next time you vote conservative. Behind the rhetoric and the "moral rectitude" of conservative politics is pure hatred and intolerance - the desire to make everyone have your morals, have your beliefs, look and act and feel like you, and if they can't or they refuse, to obliterate them.

I find it very disgusting that you would make this generalization.

Which is more racist? Believing everyone is equal and giving them equal treatment or treating them like handicaps and supporting something like Affirmative action like your liberal buddies?

You're no better than the guy who wrote those journal entries.

You obviously don't know anything about the philosophy behind affirmative action, and you obviously missed my point that he represents what is behind conservatism, though all conservatives don't claim his extreme views.

But since you've just compared me to a misogynistic, bigoted, homophobic white supremacist, I will kindly tell you to fuck off.

[I AM ME]

the problem here is this, I'd say that probably all people like the man from the journal ARE conservitive, which disgusts people, but they forget just because all people like him are conservitive does not mean all conservitives are like them, hopfully that made sence. I still am far from conservitive and hate it for the very reason of it containing so many bigots and traditionalists, but don't generalize them. Same as all Poodles are dogs, but all dogs arn't poodles.

PS i think some of you conservitives owe me for this one...

[Neil]

Understandable..........I should note that I'm not mostly hardly conservative, even though at times I sound like it.

[One-Eye]

Again, agreeing with Corey, why would you want to stand by and support Affirmative Action while there are worthwhile folks getting denied experiences?? Texas school systems offers automatic enrollment to the top state colleges AUTOMATICALLY if you're in the mere top ten percent of your graduating class, leaving somebody who is in the top 12% in the "sorry but you're not as smart" catagory.

I don't know what that example has to do with anything. College is for smart people; that's why there's academic scholarships.

Affirmative Action is there to keep racist assholes like that guy from preventing hardworking people from getting what they deserve in life. If there weren't ignorant hateful bigots like him, we wouldn't NEED Affirmative Action.

[Neil]

I don't know what that example has to do with anything. College is for smart people; that's why there's academic scholarships.

Affirmative Action is there to keep racist assholes like that guy from preventing hardworking people from getting what they deserve in life. If there weren't ignorant hateful bigots like him, we wouldn't NEED Affirmative Action.

My point is this: why should there even BE a percentage applied to how students can enroll into college? Why should states apply mere percentages to who can go/who can't go and not look beyond that into things such as merit. The reason I bring up Texas is b/c I read in the Washington Post about a senior, girl, in Texas, who was salutatorian of her graduating class.......in just about any sorta extracaricular program you could get into, but because she was in the top 12% of her class she was denied acceptance into a COMMUNITY COLLEGE in Texas.

That's depressing......and quite sad.

[One-Eye]

Okay, let me just say this.

I should not have compared all conservatives to this disgusting example of humanity. After all, there plenty of wacked liberals out there that I would be pretty disgusted at sharing a party with, too. I hope you will accept my apology.

I still worry about the philosophy behind conservatism, though. It is fundamentally based on "morals", or more specifically, Christian "morals", and it wishes to run the country based on these rules.

Not that there's anything wrong with Christianity, or the ten commandments, or anything like that. But as a nonchristian, it worries me deeply every time the barrier between church and state is broken. Every "under God" in the pledge of allegiance, every ten commandments in a courthouse, every prayer over a loudspeaker in a public school, is the government supporting one religion over every other. Sure, there are plenty of right-wingers for whom this is innocuous, there are plenty of right-wingers who wouldn't mind such things being taken away. But there are plenty of others who want to make this a "Christian country". To them, people like me, who commit no crimes, who have valid moral codes and strive to act on them, are evil, just because we're atheists. To them, being gay is a "sin". To them, women's place is to serve men.

Those are the people that worry me, that make me cringe whenever conservatives get another vote. It's easy to be a republican when you're a white Christian male. Their marginalization of people unlike you doesn't affect you. But as a woman, as an atheist, as a supporter of homosexual rights and as a human being, let me just tell you, I worry.

[One-Eye]

I don't know what that example has to do with anything. College is for smart people; that's why there's academic scholarships.

Affirmative Action is there to keep racist assholes like that guy from preventing hardworking people from getting what they deserve in life. If there weren't ignorant hateful bigots like him, we wouldn't NEED Affirmative Action.

My point is this: why should there even BE a percentage applied to how students can enroll into college? Why should states apply mere percentages to who can go/who can't go and not look beyond that into things such as merit. The reason I bring up Texas is b/c I read in the Washington Post about a senior, girl, in Texas, who was salutatorian of her graduating class.......in just about any sorta extracaricular program you could get into, but because she was in the top 12% of her class she was denied acceptance into a COMMUNITY COLLEGE in Texas.

That's depressing......and quite sad.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree that this is a pretty ridiculous idea; private colleges should choose their applicants however they wish, without adhering to any governmental code. Public schools should be regulated for fairness, but I agree that that's a pretty silly rule.

I find it odd, though, that it's in Texas, which is one of the most conservative states in the nation. Hm.

[Neil]

Understood.....no worries my brain hurts right now so I'm not able to be serious

[starvingeyes]

what about jayson blair? the new york times reporter who, despite repeated recommendations by management staff that be be fired, was promoted instead.

why?

he was black. as it turns out, mr. blair spent the majority of his career working for the times <i>entirely making up</i> the vast majority of the stories he "reported".

[One-Eye]

Yes, I'm sure he was promoted "because he was black". Yes, that's it. Oh, the poor WASP population's rights are being trodden upon every time society does something to help people unlike themselves. Oh, the horror.

[starvingeyes]

heh.

how familiar are you with mr. blair's case? did you know that at <i>every level</i> of management, from the first day of his intership to the end of his career there, recommend that he be fired.

one man went so far as to write a memo stating "we have to stop mr. blair from writing for the times immediately". another manager took him out to lunch and told him that he should be sent "to the minors" (a small town paper owned by the parent company of the NYT) to learn the ropes. his papers were repeatedly cited for factual and grammatical errors.

<i>yet he was consistently promoted and given high profile stories</i>.

why? he was black. he was hired to fill a quota.

[One-Eye]

Even if I believed that propaganda, it still wouldn't change my views. Why? No matter how perfect the system, there are always going to be people who abuse. It's been proven that even people who don't think of themselves as "racist" still, when given two equally qualified people, one white and one black, will hire the white one. Racism goes very deep, beyond most people's consciousness. A recent study just showed that on job applications that don't give the person's race, a person with a "black-sounding" name, like Aisha or Jamal, is FAR less likely to even be called in for an interview, despite being perfectly qualified.

So one highly publicized case shows an abuse of the system. Affirmative Action has helped FAR many more people than it has "hurt", and for every one case that shows an abuse of the system, there are hundreds of others that have helped qualified, worthy individuals get the jobs they need and deserve.

Nearly <i>everything</i> in society goes in favor of the WASP male population. It sickens me when upper class white men say their rights are impinged on whenever society does something to try and help the people, like blacks, women, gays, and nonchristians, that those very WASPs have trodden upon for centuries. It is bullshit.

[mosaik]

affirmative action is not an equitable policy.

the solution is to judge applicants on merit and not on race, across the board, period.

it doesn't matter what they're applying for - the most qualified should be selected.

[One-Eye]

affirmative action is not an equitable policy.

the solution is to judge applicants on merit and not on race, across the board, period.

it doesn't matter what they're applying for - the most qualified should be selected.

I agree with you, of course. But we don't live in a perfect world. I wish we didn't need Affirmative Action, but this country is full of racist shits that make it necessary. We have to live in reality, not in a utopian vision of how it should be.

[Neil]

This doesn't help my conservatisim......but there is a gentleman from the town I live in (I'll call him Mr. Doe). Mr. Doe has been a cashier at a small supermarket here in town for a good 3 years.
In this time......he has been arrested 4 times, gone to jail and served time twice (he is currently serving 6 months in Groveland Correctional for aggrevated assault) and yet he has STILL not gotten fired from the store.
They were going to fire him some time ago.........when it became apparent to store management that he was going up to store customers (while on the clock) and asking for money because he was broke.
I was fooling enough to give the guy 2 bucks before I found out about his ways. All this crap he's done, and he's still not fired and will be back to work after he's out of jail...
A sad extension to the story, he's a welfare case. The guy comes back to work for about a week or two, then claims there was some sorta "mishap" and goes on disability. The dumbass store, pays him.

I'm actually working on a meeting with several city officials and a couple of guys from the county seat to get him out of there, or fix whatever he is trying to pull. He claims, if fired, he'll sue for discrimination.

THAT is what saddens me........that the african american population in this country still feel the need to come up with excuses like that. Call me a biggot, but I'm merely being honest.