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Posted: 2/7/2003, 2:22 pm
by mosaik
this just in:
the 19 page government document containing "up to the minute intelligence" regarding iraq and weapons of mass destruction was not written by any intelligence agency working for the united states.
it was written by a post-graduate student. the bulk of the 19 page dossier is plagerized from three different articles including a paper written by a
college student
http://www.channel4.com/news/home/z/sto ... ier.html#1
uh huh. now you'll all tell me that it was coincidence that the us intelligence agencies used the
exact same words as this student and the other two sources.
comments please.
Posted: 2/7/2003, 2:22 pm
by Venom
Ok if they wanted them for defense why did they come out and declare that they were building them again (not yet built) instead of secretly building them. Doesn't make much sense if they want them for "defense". Declaring that you are going to restart a program is to try and scare. They would have built them secretly and waited to see if we would attack. They are provoking us. Simple as that. They too opress they're own people and thats why they need all the food and oil. The leaders of the country pocket all the money. Its a corrupt and oppressive government just like all the past communist countries, and like those it too will fall.
Posted: 2/7/2003, 2:24 pm
by mosaik
what are your sources? where are you getting your information? from your government?
see my post earlier about where you government gets it's information.
and to my knowledge, n. korea has denied making the weapons. they are claiming that they are using the plants for electricity.
Posted: 2/7/2003, 2:34 pm
by Bandalero
Doug E Fresh wrote:n. korea has said they will attack pre-emptively if the amerikans don't stop sending troops over there.
you pro-war types can say what you will about n. korea and iraq and how they're a danger to the world, but so far of the three nations involved in these conflicts only one is seeking to further it's agenda through the use of force.
amerika.
suppose the koreans do attack pre-emptively and force the amerikans out of the area. do you honestly believe they will follow up on that attack by invading the us?
because i don't. i have never seen evidence to suggest that they will. and the same goes for iraq.
is that right, well we just deployed a carrier out there, and they haven't attacked. actually we told the n. koreans that if they started up the nuclear program up again, that we would have to use sanctions. it was NORHT KOREA THAT SAID SANCTIONS WOULD LEAD TO WAR. but America is pushing the war envelope right? please. their main money maker in that country is missles, that's their cash crop, and they don't care who buys them, all they want is money and food for their dire situation. now in order to bolster their sales, they want to make nuclear weapons and sell them to whoever the hell wants them. you make it sound like it's a bad thing for America to try and defend themselves by not making these weapons avalable to those who dislike America because they hold an old world thought prosess and they dislike the new world thought process that most Americans hold.
Posted: 2/7/2003, 2:38 pm
by Venom
Oh I've got plenty of sources bookmarked at home. I have a few more patients to see here at work so I don't have the time to dig, but I'll have them later. Why do you think the whole world thinks N.Korea is a more pressing issue right now. Its because the evidence is all over and NO ONE wants them to have these weapons. In the meantime look up their human rights history. They are starving their people and have blackmailed the US for food aid before. Clinton wussed out during his term in office. He let them play their game and he backed down and gave them what they wanted.
Posted: 2/7/2003, 2:39 pm
by mosaik
there is a lot of speculation in your post. so far, here is what i know:
n. korea has not nuked anybody. nobody has used a nuclear weapon made by the koreans to attack the united states or any other nation. the n. koreans have not invaded any other countries.
can amerika say it's slate is as clean?
Posted: 2/7/2003, 2:55 pm
by Bandalero
you also DON'T know that n. korea sells missiles to terrorist networks. or that when a few brave n. korea soilders defect, that alot don't even weigh 100 pounds. there's alot of stuff you don't know, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
and America doesn't invade other countries, they are usually being opressed and call for the US's help in many situations that in some way shape or form is in our interests.
Posted: 2/7/2003, 3:29 pm
by starvingeyes
question: where did saddam hussein get his weapons from?
Posted: 2/7/2003, 3:49 pm
by mosaik
here is a nice graphic

Posted: 2/7/2003, 5:11 pm
by Axtech
!
They're the same person!

Posted: 2/7/2003, 5:48 pm
by Venom
Here's some FACTUAL information on your beloved "innocent" North Korea. For those of you that won't goto the link I've taken a few interesting pieces out for your reading pleasure.
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/004.html
According to an article published in The Washington Post National Weekly Edition (January 27, 1997), "Kim has followed his father's blueprint for myth-making, using the state's radio and print propaganda tools to take credit for amazing feats. Construction engineers stymied about where and how to build a dam are said to be enlightened by Kim; fighter pilots improve their prowess with instruction on takeoffs and landings from Generalissimo Kim in the control towers. Kim clings to his father's practice of providing "on-the-spot guidance to his people, a phenomenon in which the national leader visits soldiers, farmers, scientists, journalists, film makers and anyone else to impart instant wisdom that solves their most complex problems."
People in North Korea have no idea about the outside world, including the riches of its brother South Korea. North Korean radios and televisions are manufactured to receive only one channel, which broadcasts government programming. The government media paints a negative picture about the rest of world - North Korea is a heaven and other countries are worse. Listening to foreign broadcasts is punishable by execution. International calls are not allowed. Mail is censored. All North Koreans wear the same style shirts. People are required to get travel passes to visit another village.
The U.S. puts North Korea on its list of "rogue" nations, along with Iraq, Iran, Syria and Libya. Unlike the other four rogue nations, it possesses nuclear bombs in its arsenal. In 1994, the U.S. and North Korea came close to war over the issue of North Korea's secret plan to build nuclear bombs. But, finally the countries made a deal in which North Korea promised to suspend its nuclear program in exchange for two less dangerous nuclear power plants and fuel oil worth $5 billion, mainly financed by South Korea. But, till now, North Korea has not allowed any inspection of the nuclear plants to enforce the 1994 treaty.
North Korea has about 1,700 Scud missiles. The U.S. has accused North Korea of selling long-range Scud missiles to Iran and Syria, and has helped them set up domestic plants to manufacture its Scud-C missiles. According to U.S. intelligence sources, Iran keeps its Scud missiles in several deep tunnels along its coast line, including on some of its islands in the Straits of Hormuz. This gives Iran the capacity to block the strait, which is a conduit for more than one-third of the world's oil. It is said that North Korea also has developed and is deploying a long-range missile, named Rodong-I, with a range of 1000 km. This makes it capable of reaching all of South Korea and much of Japan. According to the London-based Jane's defense report, North Korea is also trying to develop missiles with a range of 3,500 km that could reach the U.S. territory of Guam.
For the last several years the U.S., Japan and South Korea have been accusing North Korea of drug trafficking and counterfeiting $100 bills. This forced the U.S. to redesign its $100 bills last year and phase out earlier notes designed in the 1920s. In April this year, Japanese police seized $100 million worth of illegal drugs labeled as honey from a North Korean cargo ship. Early this year, in order to raise hard currency, North Korea signed a deal with Taiwan to accept about 200,000 barrels of nuclear waste for tens of millions of dollars. South Korea has lodged a protest to Taiwan as the waste would be disposed of in an area less than 40 miles from its border; if North Korea collapses, South Korea would inherit the problem.
Posted: 2/7/2003, 5:53 pm
by Venom
Explosion - This nobody wants, but it is likely the "Dear Leader" will opt for it rather than suffer Implosion. All North Korean defectors who have defected from the North recently, including 74-year-old Huang Jang Yop, ranked 26th in the ruling party hierarchy and a close aide to the late "Great Leader", have made statements that North Korea's dictator and his generals are preparing for war through a massive blitzkrieg. Their plan is to capture Seoul, which is less than 30 miles from the border, within 24 hours and take the whole of South Korea within a week. Members of a U.S. Senate delegation during a visit early this year saw a massive defense exercise in which all vehicles were covered with camouflage netting and people took refuge in shelters. North Koreans had been told that the U.S. and South Korea were going to invade in the near future.
U.S. analysts are saying that if North Korean leaders options are either to see the disintegration of the country due to starvation or to attack the South, they would opt for the latter. Having seen the disintegration of the U.S.S.R. and subsequent fate of its generals and the communist leadership, the North Korean dictator and his generals would not like to see the same happen to them. If they do invade they are not going to lose anything: death through battle would be preferable to death through implosion. According to one high-ranking defector, Kim Jong Il worships Adolf Hitler, who died rather than surrender.
Kim Jong is a Hitler fan. NICE!!
Posted: 2/7/2003, 6:28 pm
by Venom
http://ncafe.com/northkorea/
More reading on the "innocent" North Korea. Boy these guys are saints aren't they?
Posted: 2/7/2003, 6:45 pm
by Bandalero
xchrisx wrote:question: where did saddam hussein get his weapons from?
mostly from the US. he's just like everyone in the world, takes our money and our goodwill then tries to fuck us over with what we gave them. then people blame the US for the sanctions that we put on countries that don't follow treaties that the WORLD puts into play.
oh and by the way, France has a 1.1 billion dollar contract with Iraq for parts and other crap. If the UN were to lead a war with Iraq france would stand to lose that money, this is a conflict of interest.
Posted: 2/7/2003, 9:13 pm
by call me andrew
what's the only country to ever use nuclear weapons?
Posted: 2/7/2003, 11:45 pm
by Bandalero
actually india and pakistan used nuclear weapons too, alot less responsibly then America i might add. sure they were just tests, but lets face it, using nuclear weapons just to flex your political muscles isn't very mature now is it.
but of course your refering to America using nukes on Japan. that was for the sake of both sides. you see Harry Truman was a mean son of a bitch. he grew sick of the war pretty damn easy. once the germans went down, he wanted a quick resolution to the war with Japan. so he told them i got something that is going to inialate you. surrender. Japan didn't. Nuke one detonated. Harry Truman again said, stop the war now, but Japan refused. the fact that Truman gave two chances to Japan is pretty uncharacteristic of him, so Nuke 2 went off. now Japan wants no more. do you realize that if you added up the dead from two of those bombs, that it would have been insignifigant compared to the projected amount of dead people had the fighting continued? for the sake of both sides, this was done. and it makes Japan a great nation that isn't as ruthless as it once was. when there is any talk of war, or even the slightest talk of Nuclear warheads, Japan is a major factor for peace at all times in most situations.
Hardheadedness kills people, this is what i'm getting at when it comes to Sadam and N. korea. History shows this.
Posted: 2/9/2003, 2:04 pm
by Venom
Hey Doug and Chris? Wheres all this "innocent" North Korea information you're supposed to have? I'm disappointed that you have nothing to counter with. Probably because there isn't any.
Posted: 2/9/2003, 2:14 pm
by mosaik
When have i ever maintained korea was innocent?
my point has always been, usa = korea.
show me some "innocent" amerika information. prove that amerika is full of saints.
Posted: 2/9/2003, 3:12 pm
by Venom
Well we have never killed thousands of our own citizens, executed people for trying to leave the country, or for speaking out against our government. We have never attacked a country just to try and broaden our borders, etc, etc. These things can't be said about Iraq, or North Korea. Give me some examples of why the leaders of those countries deserve to stay in power and also some examples of why your country is better and full of saints.
Posted: 2/9/2003, 3:26 pm
by mosaik
my country has never invaded anybody. we're irrelevant. go ahead and dig up some dirt on canada, i'm sure you could if anybody actually paid any attention to what canada thought or was doing. our government sticks to screwing us canadians, they're plenty happy doing just that.
amerika has a history of imprisoning/blacklisting/hating those who don't step to the presidents beat. need i remind you of the mccarthy era?
who cares if the people you're killing are amerikans or not? your country has killed thousands of innocent citizens. does it matter where they were born? i'm sorry, but you seem pretty arrogant by posting that.