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Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 3/9/2006, 4:17 pm

Joe Cooler wrote:That's a very twisted way of presenting my view Rob. You of all people should know that. I don't want to get into this debate here. I'm sure you can find my answer in any of the abortion related threads.

I understand, but I'm pointing out that there are outrageous implications in this law. Forcing a raped daughter to keep her father's child would be extremely damaging. Suddenly she doesn't matter. She was raped by the one man she should be able to trust more than any other. She already feels worthless. Then she's told that she has to carry her fathers child, regardless of what she wants/needs. She's just a piece of meat. A vessel for the product of her father's abuse.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 3/9/2006, 4:22 pm

I think that if you make abortion legal, that just opens the door to the standard become too lax. I agree, she shouldn't have to keep it. It's the same with assisted suicide. There ARE situations where it is ok. If it is made legal, it will happen far too often.

Random Name · Post by **Random Name** » 3/9/2006, 4:28 pm

You can't stop an idea. Doing shit like this is dangerous and stupid. Have we gone back to the 60's or something? Making abortions illegal isn't in any way going to stop abortions from happening. I certainly think something like abortion should be regulated but this is just stupid.

closeyoureyes · Post by **closeyoureyes** » 3/9/2006, 4:42 pm

Although I understand Taylors view of how a man has a right to his child too, I do agree that in the end, in the law, it is only up to a woman. It is her body at the end of the day, and if she wishes to take a life that is half of his, she will live out the consequences in their relationship.

I am against abortion 100%, I believe it is murder; However I do not think it should be illegal. This is an issue I struggle greatly with because it is not as black and white as Pro Choice and Pro Life, and that seems to be what everyone wants it to be.

Making it illegal not only will not stop abortion, but I bet within 20 years you will see a rise in illegal-abortion related deaths, infertility in those who sought an abortion and had one, etc.

Although I do not agree that it should be a womans choice to end the life of a child, it IS her choice. I would never ever make it, but I can only speak for myself and my body.

Making it illegal hurts more than it saves in the long run.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 3/9/2006, 8:02 pm

This morning in Toronto there was a stranded motorist on the side of the highway. Another guy, with his family in the car, decided to stop to help. He pulled well off of the road, got out of the car, and another car swerved out of control and hit his car.

His 5 year old son is dead as a result.

I was so upset when I heard about it. How awful.

http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/2 ... 2/page.asp

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 3/9/2006, 8:05 pm

Oh no.

pit_girl1 · Post by **pit_girl1** » 3/9/2006, 8:19 pm

closeyoureyes wrote:Although I understand Taylors view of how a man has a right to his child too, I do agree that in the end, in the law, it is only up to a woman. It is her body at the end of the day, and if she wishes to take a life that is half of his, she will live out the consequences in their relationship.

I am against abortion 100%, I believe it is murder; However I do not think it should be illegal. This is an issue I struggle greatly with because it is not as black and white as Pro Choice and Pro Life, and that seems to be what everyone wants it to be.

Making it illegal not only will not stop abortion, but I bet within 20 years you will see a rise in illegal-abortion related deaths, infertility in those who sought an abortion and had one, etc.

Although I do not agree that it should be a womans choice to end the life of a child, it IS her choice. I would never ever make it, but I can only speak for myself and my body.

Making it illegal hurts more than it saves in the long run.

That is exactly how I feel. I completely agree with you. Very well-stated.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 3/10/2006, 1:12 pm

closeyoureyes wrote:Although I understand Taylors view of how a man has a right to his child too, I do agree that in the end, in the law, it is only up to a woman. It is her body at the end of the day, and if she wishes to take a life that is half of his, she will live out the consequences in their relationship.

I am against abortion 100%, I believe it is murder; However I do not think it should be illegal. This is an issue I struggle greatly with because it is not as black and white as Pro Choice and Pro Life, and that seems to be what everyone wants it to be.

Making it illegal not only will not stop abortion, but I bet within 20 years you will see a rise in illegal-abortion related deaths, infertility in those who sought an abortion and had one, etc.

Although I do not agree that it should be a womans choice to end the life of a child, it IS her choice. I would never ever make it, but I can only speak for myself and my body.

Making it illegal hurts more than it saves in the long run.

Of course it's a mothers choice. Most things in life are a result of choice. If abortion becomes illegal, a number of other institutions would have to be put in place in order to reduce back-alley abortions. It would be stupid to just eliminate abortions while doing nothing to help those who are unexpectedly pregnant.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 3/10/2006, 1:19 pm

Axtech wrote:
Joe Cooler wrote:That's a very twisted way of presenting my view Rob. You of all people should know that. I don't want to get into this debate here. I'm sure you can find my answer in any of the abortion related threads.
I understand, but I'm pointing out that there are outrageous implications in this law. Forcing a raped daughter to keep her father's child would be extremely damaging. Suddenly she doesn't matter. She was raped by the one man she should be able to trust more than any other. She already feels worthless. Then she's told that she has to carry her fathers child, regardless of what she wants/needs. She's just a piece of meat. A vessel for the product of her father's abuse.

Yes I agree that it's absolutely horrible. I just don't see how eliminating her child/her fathers child is in any way a solution. If that child is human, can we really justify ending its life? Of course, If you don't believe a fetus is a child than the answer is obvious, but I'm speaking from the viewpoint that it is.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 3/10/2006, 1:35 pm

But what about the girl? This is running a major risk of ruining her life, giving her little chance of recovery.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 3/10/2006, 1:51 pm

It's a tough issue but I'm wouldn't say the baby is the problem. Even with an abortion, an incident like rape will always remain with her. Moral implications aside, abortion certainly is not a quick fix. In fact, I'd really question calling it a fix at all. That girl will still have to live with what her father did to her. His crime is the problem, not the baby.

Anyway, I've already debated this issue to death. I said I wouldn't debate this issue in this thread and clearly I am. Feel free to continue to leave comments (like I have any choice) but I'm not going to continue.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 3/10/2006, 2:07 pm

Definitely, but carrying a physical manifestation of that rape for 9 months wouldn't be psychologically healthy at all. Plus there's the risk of her feeling entirely worthless (well, moreso than from the abuse itself), since she's not only been treated as a sexual object by her father, but an unwilling incubater for her father's baby.

In any case, as you said, it boils down to the issue of whether the fetus is to be considered a human or not, and whether it's life should be given the same value as a human's.

I just find it hard to swallow that a victim of rape (particularly incestual rape, as in the example given) should be forced to carry the child. But it's difficult to weight what could be considered potential life against the mental health and well being of a child.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 3/14/2006, 2:31 pm

Tokyo — Move over Toronto: Japan's major broadcast networks are nearing completion on plans to build the world's tallest tower in Tokyo, a Japanese newspaper reported Tuesday.

The tower – to be 600 metres tall – will be used for terrestrial digital broadcasting at a cost equivalent to about $485-million Canadian, the national newspaper, Yomiuri, reported. It is scheduled for completion in 2011.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... Front/home

How long has the CN Tower been the tallest in the world... 30 years? Meh... guess that's not bad.

Joe Cooler · Post by **Joe Cooler** » 3/14/2006, 2:35 pm

Well if anyone is gonna beat us, it's Japan.

thirdhour · Post by **thirdhour** » 3/14/2006, 2:38 pm

So I was reading the Globe yesterday and apparently in South Dakota, it's hard for even a married woman to get contraception. Laws say a doctor can decide if he wants to give a prescription or not, and even if a woman manages to get one, she has to find a pharmasist who is willing to actually give her the pill.

now THAT'S fucked up. I mean, I understand the moral side of the abortion debate, but if you're not even going to let the people of your state use birth control, what the hell do you expect?

Soozy · Post by **Soozy** » 3/15/2006, 12:10 pm

" Six taken ill after drug trials

The six are being treated at Northwick Park hospital
Six men remain in intensive care after being taken ill during a clinical drugs trial in north-west London.
The healthy volunteers were testing an anti-inflammatory drug at a research unit based at Northwick Park Hospital when they suffered a reaction.

Relatives are with the patients, who suffered multiple organ failure. Two men are said to be critically ill.

An investigation has begun at the unit, run by Parexel, which said it followed recommended guidelines in its trial.

The men were being paid to take part in the early stages of a trial for the drug to treat conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis and leukaemia until they were taken ill on Monday within hours of taking it."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4807042.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4808836.stm

This is at the hospital where I had my operations a couple of years back. And the place that runs the trials quite often seems to have adverts on the radio station I listen to asking for volunteers. It must be so awful for these men and their families

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 3/15/2006, 5:22 pm

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/ ... orontoHome

"A billboard that fell 18 storeys from a tower to one of Toronto's busiest intersections injured three people, one of them seriously."

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 3/15/2006, 5:28 pm

and to the story Soozy posted...

How awful! They have those types of trials going on in Mississauga all the time and I have friends who keep going to info sessions because they want to make some money. They can make up to $2000 for a trial (depending on the drug and the length of the trial), which requires visiting the lab every few days for analysis and self-reports. So far they have been a little scared to do it... I'll share this story with them

nikki4982 · Post by **nikki4982** » 3/15/2006, 6:10 pm

Kathy14 wrote:http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20060315/falling_billboard_060315/20060315?hub=TorontoHome

"A billboard that fell 18 storeys from a tower to one of Toronto's busiest intersections injured three people, one of them seriously."

That's... that's... really scary.

Kathy · Post by **Kathy** » 3/16/2006, 7:54 am

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ional/home

"Held hostage at gunpoint by Palestinian extremists in the Gaza Strip, Mark Budzanowski feared for his life – until his captors discovered his passport and declared 'We love Canada'"

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