Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual, Two-Spirited, Transexual

[Axtech]

While we're half on the subject of Buddhism, here's a very helpful and very short Five-Minute Introduction:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm

Buddhanet.net has tonnes of info.

[I AM ME]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic faiths. Of course they are going to have similar morals. Of the four, Buddhism values many things that the Abrahamic faiths do not.

Obviously you don't know much about Buddhism, i was reffering to comparisons between the 10 commandments, and the golden rule, to the Buddhist Precepts, which are almost identical. This is also true of Native religions and most every other religion you can find on earth. Are you implying that it is on fact true that Christianity, or its relative religions are infact the origin of morality? There was morailty in the world much before these religions existed, and in many areas uneffected by them. What about children raised athesist, do they not have morals?

I wasn't implying anything. I have no idea how you could ever pick up such a notion from what I said. Secondly, there are many things that seperate the Buddhist religion from the Abrahamic faiths. If we comparing the ten commandments to the 5 basic buddhist precepts, we find quite a few.

1. You shall have no other God's before me.
2.You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below
3.You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God
4.Honor your father and your mother
5. Do not Covet.

If you consider the ten commandments the basis for Christianity and Judaism, the first two laws alone seperate Christianity and Judaism from a multitude of religons.

Yes the ten commandments have similar laws to Buddhism but you simply cannot pick and choose laws that are similar and then go on to assume they all have the same foundation.

actually 4 and 5 are Buddhist beliefs aswell, HUGE parts of the buddhist lifestyle, in fact to not Covet is basically central.

[I AM ME]

Infact homosexual sin is basically an abnormalty among only the Christian faith and it's 2 relatives

Not really. 100 years ago Homosexuality was a "Sin" or viewed as wrong almost everywhere, regardless of Religion. Hell, even into the 80's, and even now, people who have been raised without religion can still be unaccepting of it. Don't make it Religions fault. It isn't.

actually homosexuality was an accepted part of North American, Med., Middle Eastern, Asian, and African culture before the arrival Abrahamic faiths. And many continued outside these areas. The reasoning is that if we are all made by the devine being, then homosexuality is also part of our design, or in nature religions, if nature is holy, and sexuality is a part of our nature then that itself is also holy and not to be denied or tampered with.


sorry to bring relligion into this, it's not to attack people of faith on the board, it's just a subject we've been debating in both my Soc. class and my religion classes.

[Joe Cooler]

Regardless, the first two clearly set Christianity and Judaism apart from a large portion of religions and world views today. The notion that there is one God and thus one truth is a position that is rather foreign in a postmodern world.

[Joe Cooler]

Infact homosexual sin is basically an abnormalty among only the Christian faith and it's 2 relatives

Not really. 100 years ago Homosexuality was a "Sin" or viewed as wrong almost everywhere, regardless of Religion. Hell, even into the 80's, and even now, people who have been raised without religion can still be unaccepting of it. Don't make it Religions fault. It isn't.

actually homosexuality was an accepted part of North American, Med., Middle Eastern, Asian, and African culture before the arrival Abrahamic faiths. And many continued outside these areas. The reasoning is that if we are all made by the devine being, then homosexuality is also part of our design, or in nature religions, if nature is holy, and sexuality is a part of our nature then that itself is also holy and not to be denied or tampered with.

You'd be right if you werent taking into account a major element of Christian and Jewish theology. When Adam and Eve sinned, God's perfect world then became imperfect. Nature once was perfect, but sin has marred it.

[Henrietta]

And thats how i believe most people should act. And sorry i wasn't trying to attack Islam, i was just trying to use an example of religion in politics other then Christians to let her see it in a way that she doesn't feel as strongly about, and to see it with less bias, or at least opposite bias.

Am I "her"? Because I'm pretty sure I get it...

Well said Sinead.

[Corey]

I understand where you're coming from, but I still think being gay is normal, because it's not a defiency or abnormality.

Well it certainly isn't a deficiency, but deficiency isn't the opposite of normal. If someone is extremely intelligent, they aren't normal, but they wouldn't be considered deficient.

Abnormal may not be a polite way to put it, but seemingly appropriate. The bottom line is, animals are not intended to be gay. As cruel as this sounds, it goes against science, forget about religion. The evidence is overwhelming. There isn't anything wrong with being gay but it is by no means normal.

I believe Rusty mentioned something about the "norm". Well, that is an entirely different argument. There is a difference between being normal and being accepted. The examples you cited have to do with societal choices. People weren't born believing in a matriachal or a patriarchal society. It was tought to them based on historical decisions. If you want to make the argument that being gay is a choice, then so be it. I don't believe that myself. Oh, and using science as a means of "evolving" goes against the whole theory of evolution. Evolution is supposed to be the natural adaptation to an environment.

[Henrietta]

I'd like to know how you could evolve to have children with same sex couples. This is impossible unless we can change our whole makeup to reproduce asexually.

[thirdhour]

A defiency OR abnormality. Being extremely intelligent would be an abnormality.


Hmmm, philosphical question for Corey...if you believe that being gay is abnormal because naturally, animals aren't meant for it (which I agree with, by the way, it makes scientific sense), do you think that as the more advanced animals that humans are, they're able to have loving relations that exist outside of sexual activity?

I mean, love is an extremely complex topic, and is so personal, that I can't see it being so black and white. I mean, I don't really find myself attracted, per se, to females in the slightest, but I'm in love right now and I really think I'm in love with a person that has nothing to do with his gender. I don't know, maybe I'm being naive.


So the question is, are gay relations abnormal or is it gay sex that is? Truthfully, sex is the only part of a relationship that morality seems to have anything to do with (I think...), so in the definition as being gay as abnormal, can you not seperate the relationship from the sex?

[thirdhour]

I'd like to know how you could evolve to have children with same sex couples. This is impossible unless we can change our whole makeup to reproduce asexually.

There are way too many people in the world as it is. This is the last thing we as a society should be worried about. Maybe if there were more couples that were unable to have children, some of those children who have no parents would find some. Sure, creating a child from two parents that then raise that child is a beautiful thing, but there are many many situations were it doesn't work out like that, so whatever. I don't think it's a big deal.

[Henrietta]

I disagree. The attitude that the world is taking on, the one that you expressed, is a crippling one. People are having fewer children, which is fine. I won't deny there are population distribution problems. But, if everyone has that attitude, we'll eventually die off. It sounds unlikely, but it would eventually happen. More and more people have none or very few children. Since it's my belief that it is basically my calling in life to raise a righteous family, this could be a problem. I think the actual problem is that our standard of living is so high and so demanding, we don't have time to give our attention to children.

I think there is a difference between being "in love" and loving. I love my mom, but I'm not in love with her. I love my roommate, but I am not in love with her.

[don't ask why]

I'd have to disagree with humans dying off because they aren't reproducing as quickly. To a point that's true, but more likely humans will die off:
a) nuclear bombs flying all about
b) killed by Mother Nature
c) killed by UFO's and aliens
d) having too many children so the world can't recuperate from the load

I'd say a) is the most likely.

[saman]

you forgot using up all of earth's resources and starving to death

[don't ask why]

I'd put that under category b.

[thirdhour]

Well obviously, if people share the same beliefs as you, they'll have to make a personal choice of how to raise their children. This no longer is a moral issue, it's getting into really personal ideas on how to find happiness in life, and what how you or even if you decide to have kids.

My attirude isn't that everyone should not have kids, hell, I have no idea if I want to have kids, it's that it's a personal issue that has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. Everyone has a different lifestyle, and everyone has kids differently. Being in a gay relationship just makes it more extreme.

The like, 2% (I have NO idea what the real statistics are) of people that are in gay relationships isn't going to make our society disapear.

There will always be people that want to have sex and end up getting pregnant, no matter how that happens. It's a fact of life. It's kind of sad that sex is no longer that special thing that only exists to create a human life, because that would be amazingly beautiful. There's too much disasociating from sex and love, which can be blamed on society's attitudes, the media, and a huge emphasis on sex being seperate from love. Whatever, it's completely irrational to think that pure sex can really exist, because then you'd end up with hellalot of children. Wow, I'm off topic...

[thirdhour]

I'd put that under category b.

I'd put it under catergory d.

[Henrietta]

That's true. It is sad.

But I didn't say it would happen quickly. And what if something did happen that destroyed millions of people? You'd want posterity to survive. Whatever, that has nothing to do with the point.

[don't ask why]

I'd put that under category b.

I'd put it under catergory d.

Fair enough, you could put it under a, b, or d. (b being a result).

Like the saying is, do you drink for pleasure, or do you drink for joy?

Sex ain't a revered thing anymore - but then again, was it ever? I gotta say, if I was the child of gay parents, would that not be weird? Then again, if you grew up like that it wouldn't be a problem, but kids these days are cruel...

[I AM ME]

Actually it's very possible that homosexuality does serve a evolutionary purpose. It is present in Animal society by the way as well, not many people realize that. Perhaps it was developed as a safety valve for control of a species numbers.

[I AM ME]

Not really. 100 years ago Homosexuality was a "Sin" or viewed as wrong almost everywhere, regardless of Religion. Hell, even into the 80's, and even now, people who have been raised without religion can still be unaccepting of it. Don't make it Religions fault. It isn't.

actually homosexuality was an accepted part of North American, Med., Middle Eastern, Asian, and African culture before the arrival Abrahamic faiths. And many continued outside these areas. The reasoning is that if we are all made by the devine being, then homosexuality is also part of our design, or in nature religions, if nature is holy, and sexuality is a part of our nature then that itself is also holy and not to be denied or tampered with.

You'd be right if you werent taking into account a major element of Christian and Jewish theology. When Adam and Eve sinned, God's perfect world then became imperfect. Nature once was perfect, but sin has marred it.

you also ignored the fact that as i stated before, homosexuality WAS excepted across the world before and outside abrhamic religion, you assumption that it has always been considered taboo, and unnatural acorss the world is false. Homosexuality as a Sin, is a abnormalty among organized religions.