Police Brawl In Cincinnati:

[Corey]

If you haven't seen the video or even heard about this story, go here:

http://www.nbc10.com/news/2674053/detail.html

[starvingeyes]

i selected the first option although i doubt very much the incident had anything to do with race.

if you watch the slideshow you can see the police clearly crossing the line around the 5th or 6th slide. once they have the man subdued and on the ground, in cuffs, the next slide shows an officer raising his baton once again.

[Corey]

I just watched the video in the link I added. That is not the full video, and the one I've seen previously showed more of the struggle to subdue the man.

Also, the man was found to have PCP in his system.

Don't go by that slideshow... it doesn't show how the man kept getting back up time and time again and continuing to attack the officers.

[starvingeyes]

well, for the first half of it or so, you can clearly see that the perp is dangerous and acting violently towards the cops, neverminding the fact that he is some 350 pounds.

but after they have him on the ground, there is no reason to continue taking shots at him, regardless of how much he struggles. i think common sense should tell you that beating a man unconcious is not a good way to subdue him.

i would chalk this up to the police being pissed off at the guy for beating their asses the way he did and that, combined with his continued struggles after being cuffed, resulted in the continued beating. the cops probably thought they weren't doing anything wrong at the time.

[Corey]

I don't think they did anything wrong. As soon as he attacked, that gives them the right to put him down as necessary. If someone that large is attacking me, until I know he is cuffed and secured, I'm not going to let down. I probably would have even shot the guy. They didn't strike him once he was cuffed but he refused to let up at any point of the incident. You can also see that they clearly weren't trying to kill him as they were trying full-heartily to revive him. In my opinion, the beating didn't kill him, the drugs in his system combined with his oversized heart did.

[Neil]

Corey - this is one instance where I'm going to have to take a strong stand of disagreement with you. I too, saw the entire video and I heard all of the stuff about how he supposedly had PCP in his system.
I strongly believe that every one of the officers except for the one that was initially motivated to strike should be off the force, no exceptions. I'm sorry, but it wouldn't have taken more than one guy (perhaps two, I'll be flexible) to take care of things. And also (like I read above) they continued that beating a tad longer than I would have suspected was needed to take care of the man.

I honestly believe the reason he continued to fight the officers is because, he too, knew it was rediculous and seemed like he only wanted to get away long enough to stop. It makes it difficult being struck in the lower area of your body over and freaking over again.

Until the coroner makes a full conclusion, I don't believe it was the drugs that killed him. Enlarged heart, of course, had something to do with it. But when you're 350 lbs of FAT I think getting the shit kicked outta ya is gonna fuck up that enlarged heart quite a bit.

I won't buy a vowel until I get more clues

[Corey]

Here's one way to get them to stop hitting you. Stop moving and let them do their job.

[Neil]

Here's one way to get them to stop hitting you. Stop moving and let them do their job.

Valid, completely valid. But perhaps IF the PCP was the reason he was so resiliant, it was because he was flipping/scared outta his mind. When my friends have "tripped" in the past, none of them have ever gotten violent they all get all freakin scared and start seeing shit. As a police officer, action needs to balance with reaction which they obviously didn't even take a single second to think about that until they basically beat him to a pulp.

Man, when I get onto the force (when is the key word) I'm going to commit cop-on-cop crime, and see how they like it. I'm so kidding about the whole cop-on-cop thing.

[Venom]

Its very sad that the man died, but you don't resist arrest PERIOD! Any rational person knows that if you resist you are gonna get beat. I've seen the entire video and they were screaming at him to stop resisting and yet he kept comming at them. He went so far as to choke one of the officers! This is a non-issue! If you start taking away a cops right to defend himself you open up a whole new can of worms. Its hard enough for police officers and the law today. We don't need to make it easier to get away with being a criminal.

[Corey]

Here's one way to get them to stop hitting you. Stop moving and let them do their job.

Valid, completely valid. But perhaps IF the PCP was the reason he was so resiliant, it was because he was flipping/scared outta his mind. When my friends have "tripped" in the past, none of them have ever gotten violent they all get all freakin scared and start seeing shit. As a police officer, action needs to balance with reaction which they obviously didn't even take a single second to think about that until they basically beat him to a pulp.

I'm pretty sure the cops were scared out of their minds too when a 350lb man came charging after them swinging and yelling "Whiteboy! Whiteboy!"

PCP isn't an excuse to allow someone to attack you.

[starvingeyes]

i'm not talking about taking away the right to defend themselves, i'm talking about them becoming excessive.

this is just another example of officers responding to a perp resisting arrest that got out of hand. i can safely guarantee you that there was nothing this guy was doing that justified him being beaten to a point where he was unconcious.

it's a mindset thing. cops think that once the guy takes a swing at one of them, whatever they do in response is justified. this is bolstered by the public (like yourself, for example) saying they were just defending themselves. they weren't. they had passed the point of defending themselves and began overreacting.

[Bandalero]

In my opinion, the beating didn't kill him, the drugs in his system combined with his oversized heart did.

nope, it was ruled homicide. as in he was killed. the drugs didn't kill him nor did the condition.

that was way too much, me personally i would have shot the man in the leg and imobilized him. then hancuffed him and then treat the leg. that was way too many clubs to the head, and they know it. toward the end of the whole video one of them even tells someone go shut off the camera, and the guy answers yeah, i already turned off the mic. the guy was on the ground screaming for god's sake. then they put the goy on his side when he's not breathing, and about 5 minutes later start to preform CPR. i mean c'mon, they've dropped the ball and they know it.

[Venom]

this is just another example of officers responding to a perp resisting arrest that got out of hand. i can safely guarantee you that there was nothing this guy was doing that justified him being beaten to a point where he was unconcious.

it's a mindset thing. cops think that once the guy takes a swing at one of them, whatever they do in response is justified. this is bolstered by the public (like yourself, for example) saying they were just defending themselves. they weren't. they had passed the point of defending themselves and began overreacting.

He didn't just "take a swing", he punched and kicked the officers repeatedly. He also had his hands fully around ones neck and was choking him. The officeres did nothing wrong. He did. You don't resist arrest period and you definitly don't contine to attack.

nope, it was ruled homicide. as in he was killed. the drugs didn't kill him nor did the condition.

Your wrong. The condition had everything to do with it.

Dr. Carl Parrott noted that Jones was obese, had an enlarged heart, and had ingested PCP and cocaine hours before the incident with police. Parrott said superficial bruises consistent with nightstick injuries were on his body.

Parrott said Jones' death being ruled a homicide doesn't imply hostile or malign behavior. The coroner's office said Tuesday that Jones had bruises on his legs but no sign of injuries to his internal organs.

He said Jones' death "must be regarded as a direct and immediate consequence, in part, of the struggle, plus his obesity, heart disease, and drug intoxication." He said Jones had several lethal health problems when the confrontation happened. The struggle caused cardiac dysrhythmia, which was the ultimate physical cause of death, but he stressed the event precipitating his death was the struggle.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/12/03/died.in.custody/

NO internal injuries from the beating. Only bruises MOSTLY ON HIS LEGS! He did as a result of the struggle which was too much for his enlarged heart.

[starvingeyes]

i'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong, clearly he did, and clearly they had a right to give some back. i'm only saying that they gave too much back.

but on this particular issue, i'm willing to cede my usual moralism and accept the reality that the world is probably a little bit safer with this freak off the streets, so i'm not going to hold it against this particular group of cops.