Got some time on your hands?

[happening fish]

This long read is well worth it.

http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com

[Venom]

I will do you a favor and pick that piece of trash apart BIT BY BIT and you try and validate Mr. Berman's so called "facts"!!

#1. (from part 1)

George Bush Junior had it easier than most presidents - his father effectively demonized Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf War. He ignored the fact that Hussein up until very recently was an ally that America armed with conventional and chemical weapons. Instead he is now focusing on the horrible things Hussein has done with the weapons we gave him.

A lie! The US never supplied Iraq with chemical "weapons" of any sort. A US company sent Iraq samples of anthrax, botulinum toxin, etc because Iraq claimed to need them for medical research. The CDC feeling it was good for the Iraqi's to know about these diseases and how to combat them agreed to allow the small samples to be sent. These WERE NOT weapons or even "weaponized" versions of the disease. Mr Berman's claim is a flat out lie and I challenge anyone to show me proof that we sent "chemical weapons" to Iraq. Another note worth stating is that FRANCE, Britian, WEST GERMANY, and others ALL aided the Iraqi's with money and conventional weapons in their war with Iran. I see not criticism of those countries comming from any of you terrorist supporters.

[Venom]

#2

While yes, Saddam is a brutal ruler doing horrible things to his people, why would America target him while ignoring the 90 other countries with similar situations? Why target a despot that has neither the capability or desire to attack the United States of America

No desire to attack the US???? This is the same man who publically CHEERED the attacks on Sept. 11th. He hated the US and would have done anything to harm America. Dan may have a point that he didn't have the capability per se to attack her directly with his military but he certainally could have funded, supported, armed, or even planned a terrorist attack on American interests. No PROOF has come out that he has done any of this but no one can argue that he would in the future

[happening fish]

Don't look at me, check his sources.

[Venom]

#3

The American government has no interest in saving Iraqi lives any more than necessary for public support. Sadly, it has always been like this, which shouldn't surprise you considering most of our leaders' great grandparents owned your or your friends' great grandparents. Well, except for Colin Powell's, but I'm sure they got to work inside the house.

Now if that isn’t a hateful comment I dunno what it. I’m sure Mr. Powell would love that comment.

#4

In order to look at this rationally, it is important to realize that in most cases, America is not the peace loving humanitarian force the government paints itself to be. In World War 2, for example, American troops were not sent in to rescue Jews and stop Hitler. Roosevelt knowingly failed to take many steps that would have saved thousands of Jewish lives. In fact, it was Germany that declared war on America, not vice versa. And even then, saving Jews was a low priority left to the State Department (A People's History Of The United States; Zinn, Howard).

Another lie. For starters Roosevelt wanted to help the Jews (I’ve already gone over this before) but Congress was playing isolationist and therefore Roosevelt was powerless. Once in the war what else were we fighting for if it wasn’t to stop the Holocaust and to prevent a “German/Japan World”?? Mr. Berman wants you to believe that America only uses the word “humanitarian” as an excuse to make gains for herself. Why then did we save MILLIONS of muslims from slaughter in Kosovo??? What in the hell did we have to gain there?? We couldn't get the UN to help us, NATO was fully responsible for the effort. Shows the US and NATO are more humanitarian than the UN. Finally the source Mr. Berman uses is from an anti-american. He is a Marxist and despises everything this country stands for and even calls for the overthrow of our government and current way of life in his forementioned book.

I bet as I go further through this all his sources will be biased and untruthful.[/quote]

[Venom]

Don't look at me, check his sources.

You think its such a great read you should have checked his sources. Goes to prove that you will believe anything anti-american that you read and will promote it as fact. I will say some of the stuff he says has merit to it, but the way he spins it is bogus and he likes to add untruths and twists where in reality they don't exist. So far I have pointed out that yes the US provided Iraq with anthrax samples.......he wants readers to believe we sold them weapons filled with the stuff and thats absolutly false! Bush and the current administration are not responsible for past administrations mistakes. The Reagan administration had no way of knowing what Saddam was to do in the future. World history is FULL of examples just like this one!

[happening fish]

if being biased was a triple bacon burger with cheese then you would get scarfed down by a fat lady in a pink jumpsuit

[Venom]

#5

The Bush Propaganda engine, co-headed by Colin Powell, the man greatly responsible for covering up the Mai Lai massacre where over 400 Vietnamese women and children were murdered by American soldiers, pounds manipulative, incendiary keywords into your head to elicit an emotional response. Hussein's government has always been referred to as a "regime," which we instantly equate with "bad."

Colin Powell did not try to cover up anything. He recieved a letter from a soldier that gave no details or locations. What the soldier said in the letter was that there were soldiers that killed innocent women and children. He gave no numbers, locations, names, etc. Mr. Powell could not investigate something with no details and said so. There was no effort to cover it up in fact when others came forward with details it became international news. Once he saw the facts he then acknowledged that it happened, but of course before he knew for sure he denied it.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/BHM/powell/

[Venom]

#6

Remember, these accusations are coming from the same guy that undid 30 years of progress by withdrawing America from global nuclear disarmament treaties and announcing the right to pre-emptive strike and the use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear countries.

WRONG!!!! What he got us out of was the 1972 ABM treaty in order to build the nuclear DEFENSE shield. He DID NOT back out of ANY disarmament treaty. In fact we just signed a new one last year with Russia.

http://www.inq7.net/wnw/2002/may/15/wnw_1-1.htm

[Venom]

#7

4. The government uses the "unbiased" media to broadcast their propaganda into your living room


The saddest thing is some people are calling the media leftist liberals. Calling the media left is like calling Dick Cheney a pacifist.

OMG!!! The media only reports the few sporatic attacks and is constantly questioning the administration about their decisions!! LOL this is the post blatent lie so far. Talk radio.....yes thats mostly right wing, but CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, etc, etc, etc are ALL left wing, and anti-war!!

http://www.gallup.com/subscription/?m=f&c_id=13968

[Venom]

#8

For the record, he didn't gas his own people. He gassed the Kurds. With money and chemical plans supplied by the CIA. While, yes, geographically they live in Iraq, calling them Iraqi is like calling Palestinians Israelis.

LOL since when does being a permanent citizen of a country not make you well......a member of that country. Just because they were Kurds instead of Arabs doesn't mean they aren't his "people". Thats like saying a black person isn't American because hes not White (or Native American to take it further). Thats just an outragious statement by Mr. Berman.
Is this still a great read Alex??? Of course its full of lies and half-truths that support your view so I'm sure you still support even though its garbage right? If this is the kind of stuff you get your views from I feel very sorry for you.

[Venom]

LMAO.....this is the best yet. Not only does he not know fact from fiction but he can't even write his own stuff. Look at part 5 of his page and then look here...

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/1775/sw177515.htm

WORD FOR WORD!!! Plagerized!! And its from a SOCIALIST PAGE. LOL great stuff.

Note: he does say "see sources" but the socialistworker is not one of his sources.

[Venom]

#9

According to John Ashcroft, I am a terrorist. And by reading this far, you are too.

I can't help it. I like to read. I prefer to form my OWN opinion. I wouldn't kill or hurt anybody, but our attorney general has defined terrorism as even speaking against the government and holding opposing views.

Will someone PLEASE show me where Mr. Ashcroft said this?? Wait I'll save you....he didn't!! Look at all the people speaking out against the government. Why isn't the government calling them terrorists and arresting them?? Oh wait thats right HE DIDN'T SAY IT!!!

[happening fish]

#CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, etc, etc, etc are ALL left wing, and anti-war!!

kindly refrain from further crack smoking

[Venom]

Show me one story from the those media outlets that doesn't have some kind of negative spin about the war to it. Show me an article that tells us all the good things that are happening in Iraq like how more people are in the streets of Baghdad now than ever before, or how everyday electricity is being brought to places that have been without it for years. Show me a story about all the new schools and hospitals that are being built. Also you won't find the story of a US soldier that was walking children to school when he was shot by a sniper in the forementioned media sources. You will find it in unbiased sources but not the ones I have named. For every one story you can muster on the good stuff, I'll find 20 on the sporatic attacks in Baghdad and other doom and gloom. CNN doesn't tell you that except for a 75 mile radius around Baghdad the country is secure and happy.

[Venom]

#10

All of a sudden being anti-war, even questioning a single government action, has become "anti-American." Anti-War protesters are accused of not supporting our troops?

Are you kidding me? Is there any BETTER way to support our troops then by GETTING THEM OUT OF A WAR?

You can speak out against the government but going overboard and complaining day in and day out shows the troops you don't support them. They are over there risking their lives everyday and people are screaming that they have no right to be over there. It demoralizes them and puts them at more risk because they are not focused on their objective. I have head dozens of family members of troops plead with people to stop the negative comments because their loved ones say that its distracting and makes them feel unappreciated. They hear what people over here are saying and think its horrible. They also say the media has it all wrong and that they are doing A LOT of good in Iraq.

[Venom]

#11

Al Jazeera, the Middle East's primary news source, is plastering the television and papers with images of bombing victims, of civilians that had their lives stolen by Bush. A 9 year-old girl that had the back half of her skull blown off. The boy that had both of his arms ripped off by an American bomb.

As well as showing American soldiers being tortured, killed, and humiliated. I'm sure he just forgot to mention that part.

[Venom]

#12

Simple. It's ignored. The farmers won't come stop the wolf from eating the sheep after hearing the same cry night after night. Except this time, the American people are the sheep, the Bush administration is the wolf, and the Democrats, who should have been the farmers, are too scared that they'll be sent more Anthrax if they oppose the administration. Tom Daschle, that fuck.

Is he seriously saying that the administration was behind the anthrax attacks??? OMG what next?

[Venom]

#13

Some people, like George Bush Senior, try to compare Saddam Hussein to Adolph Hitler. Other than both having a last name that starts with the same letter and living in a place most Americans refer to as "Not America," they don't have too much in common.

I dunno both seemed to enjoy ethnic cleansing and killing thousands of people. Seems like they have that in common.

[Venom]

#14

Israelis claim that Iraq is a threat to their homeland. I disagree. Israel could militarily crush Iraq with lightning speed and precision. In fact, Ariel Sharon announced on December 7, 2002, that if Iraq did in fact launch missiles, chemical or conventional, Israel would retaliate tenfold.

So to be a threat you have to be able to to crush the country that you are threatening? I don't see the logic in that.

Not a single missile has been fired at Israel.

Maybe some will be, but they will be fired as final acts of desperation when Iraq sees imminent defeat. If America didn't illegally invade Iraq, Israel would not have to worry about missile attacks from Iraq.

Why does that give Iraq to attack a nation that isn't fighting them??