Amazing Read
If you call his ideas moronic without reading it, yes.
Though I haven't read it, I'm guessing the title is alluding to the general stupidity of the north american population (which is predominately [as far as publicity and power goes] white).
Though I haven't read it, I'm guessing the title is alluding to the general stupidity of the north american population (which is predominately [as far as publicity and power goes] white).
- -
Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
Every now and then I fall out into open air just to feel the wind, rain and everything.
And though the hum and sway gets me down, I'll find the way to peace and openness.
"Robbo" - © Alex (happeningfish)...^5 ^5 v v
he comes off as a manipulating man that would make up lies and distort the truth for his advantage. and it's because of the movie.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
-
starseed_10
- Posts: 10473
- Joined: 8/21/2002, 8:31 am
- Location: 123 fake street
- Contact:
blue eyed soul wrote:but i have seen both of his movies.
Actually, he's done more than two movies.
I've been wanting to read the book for quite a while, soon hopefully. I can understand how people don't like him, just as I can't stand Rush Limbaugh. Just on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Also, I'm curious, what exactly in 'Bowling for Columbine' is incorrect? I realize some things have been skewed to fit his vision, but his message about the US living in a gun loving - fear driven culture, what was incorrect? I'm just curious as to what you guys think.
Here's a link about his latest doc: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596/ I know this one will cause a lot of shit. I'm sure it will make for some interesting threads on this board.
hmm i've never seen his movies maybe i missed something, but from his book he's fairly respectable, has anyone here who hates him actually read his book?
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
wanan wrote:Also, I'm curious, what exactly in 'Bowling for Columbine' is incorrect? I realize some things have been skewed to fit his vision, but his message about the US living in a gun loving - fear driven culture, what was incorrect? I'm just curious as to what you guys think.
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
Thanks for posting that again Narbus... as if it hasn't been posted enough...
Personally, I think the lies in the movie are there on purpose. It parallels the media. How much of what the media tells us is true? Yet how many people strictly believe what the news tells them? The people who question the media are the same people who are going to question the movie, and I think that's what Moore wanted.
By editing the movie in his favour, and manipulating statistics he was able to persuade a lot of people. Funny, isn't that what the media does too? He was just doing what the media does, only at a grander scale. I think his goal was to get people to question the movie, and look at things for themselves, which inevitably would cause them to look differently at the media, and the flaws and scare tactics that they present.
Either way I believe the movie was eye-opening for the general public, and I'd imagine anyone who watched it was affected in some way.
Personally, I think the lies in the movie are there on purpose. It parallels the media. How much of what the media tells us is true? Yet how many people strictly believe what the news tells them? The people who question the media are the same people who are going to question the movie, and I think that's what Moore wanted.
By editing the movie in his favour, and manipulating statistics he was able to persuade a lot of people. Funny, isn't that what the media does too? He was just doing what the media does, only at a grander scale. I think his goal was to get people to question the movie, and look at things for themselves, which inevitably would cause them to look differently at the media, and the flaws and scare tactics that they present.
Either way I believe the movie was eye-opening for the general public, and I'd imagine anyone who watched it was affected in some way.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
hey, he was merely doing what the media does everyday. If anything he's educating the public to look closer and not believe everything they hear. He's using BFC as a starting point essentially.
Hell you guys have a president who lies in national addresses, why the hell can't Moore make a movie about lies?
Hell you guys have a president who lies in national addresses, why the hell can't Moore make a movie about lies?
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
because his movie is just that, a movie. it does not have the traits that make it an informal documentary. it's for entertainment purposes only, nothing moore.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
J-Neli wrote:Thanks for posting that again Narbus... as if it hasn't been posted enough...
A question was raised, I replied. You don't honestly think that every person on this board reads every single post, do you?
Personally, I think the lies in the movie are there on purpose. It parallels the media. How much of what the media tells us is true? Yet how many people strictly believe what the news tells them? The people who question the media are the same people who are going to question the movie, and I think that's what Moore wanted.
Yes. And I think that he's secretly being controlled by My Little Pony's who have gone mad with the unholy power of their magical pixie dust and are prepping the world for their horrible, bloody takeover and the resultant thousand years of slavery and death.
And the best part? I have just as much proof of my assertion as you do of yours. In fact, that this movie was promoted as a documentary, enough to win an Oscar for Best Documentary actually tells me that you are simply wrong about these assertions, so the Little Pony theory is currently higher on the plausibility ladder than yours.
Also, if he was, in fact, trying to convince people to look more closely at the media, then why on Earth would he make a film that enourages "the same people who question the media" to question the movie? Those people are already on his side. If he wanted to make a movie to get the common person to be more skeptical, then explain this to me.
By editing the movie in his favour, and manipulating statistics he was able to persuade a lot of people. Funny, isn't that what the media does too? He was just doing what the media does, only at a grander scale. I think his goal was to get people to question the movie, and look at things for themselves, which inevitably would cause them to look differently at the media, and the flaws and scare tactics that they present.
Had that actually been his goal, then he's not just a moron, he's an insipid filmmaker, since the "manipluations" he used were based on year old political campaigns, and second or third page news AT BEST, as well as now-defunct websites. Any hints that he might have given to actually promote the cause of media skepticism were based, in part, on decade old political campaign ads and websites that no longer exist. He was actively lying here, and not for the good reasons you want to believe. Deal with it.
Either way I believe the movie was eye-opening for the general public, and I'd imagine anyone who watched it was affected in some way.
Yes. They now had a very strong basis of lies upon which to freak out and hate the NRA and government for no actual reason. Yay.
hey, he was merely doing what the media does everyday. If anything he's educating the public to look closer and not believe everything they hear. He's using BFC as a starting point essentially.
Hell you guys have a president who lies in national addresses, why the hell can't Moore make a movie about lies?
No, he's trying to push his own agenda through lies and underhanded manipulations. How many average people do you honestly think would take the time to go look up a political ad from 1988 to double check the facts? Moore is a liar. Not some "misunderstood champion for critical thought." He's a liar.
PS: Yes, the "Well, that guy's doing it too!" defense, though it has NEVER EVER held up as a sound defense before, is completely acceptable here. Well played.
because his movie is just that, a movie. it does not have the traits that make it an informal documentary. it's for entertainment purposes only, nothing moore.
No, it was pushed as a documentary, even to the point of an Academy Award. It's not "just for entertainment."
In closing, let me say this, particularly to J-Neli:
You claim that Moore is lying intentionally to make the point to look closer at the media, and making Occam spin in his grave. You then proceed to believe this whole heartedly, without taking a closer look at Moore's actions, interviews, and the veracity of his other work.
A few excerpts from his interviews:
Contra Costa Times in March: "I always assume that only 10 to 20 percent of people who read my books or see my films will take the facts and hard-core analysis and do something with it. If I can bring the other 80 percent to it through entertainment and comedy, then some of it will trickle through."
From here
"So, I guess, I'm counting on there being one or two people in the media who are not in lockstep with everyone else, who are not lazy, and who are going to do the job to bring the truth to the American people. And that may happen, maybe not, in our traditional media. It may happen on the Internet and other new media." (emphasis mine)
"But I've been surprised in this first week how many average Americans were not aware of all of the trickery and deceit that took place in the year before the election to fix it for George W. Bush." (yet he's fine with lying to people in his movie? If he wanted to point out how the media distorts the truth, wouldn't a movie about that be better?)
From here
"Newt and these Republicans have risen to power by simplifying everything and trying to play upon peoples' fears and prejudices and get them to blame other people for their problems." ("The NRA is resonsible for the problems in this country," seems a little simplisitc and dropping blame, doesn't it?)
From here
"Child abduction - that's not a threat. That's a big lie. Child abductions are down this year over last year. They were down last year from the year before. It's actually a problem that's been getting better in the sense that it's happening less and less often. You wouldn't know that living in Southern California this past summer, would you?" (He decries the lies that make people fear child abduction, then goes on to post lies that make people fear guns? That's smart of him, yes.)
Face it, in everything he's done and said, he's claiming to be a champion for the truth. Then he lies. He's not promoting critical thought, he's a big liar. He's not out to save the country, he's out to lie to people until they believe that him and his way are right. He's a liar, a manipulator, and a hypocrite.
If you're honestly hell bent on believing anything else, even in the face of all this and all the other information that's out there online right now, then stock up on horseshoes and lassos. The ponies are coming, the ponies are coming.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
-
starvingeyes
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
i'd like to remind everyone of something.....
THIS THREAD IS ABOUT "STUPID WHITE MEN" NOT "BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE" !!!!!!
lets try to keep on track, if you haven't read it please don't trash it
THIS THREAD IS ABOUT "STUPID WHITE MEN" NOT "BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE" !!!!!!
lets try to keep on track, if you haven't read it please don't trash it
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
And who's the author of the damn book? And if he lies to hell and back in one medium, then doesn't it follow that he'll lie to hell and back in others?
So, in closing, ba-ding.
So, in closing, ba-ding.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die