Here we go with the race card again

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 10/1/2003, 3:43 pm

Its so dispicable when people take advantage of their race. Anyone that knows Rush at all can say hes not a racist. What he said can in no way be considered racist. For that matter it would take a racist to even think that what he said was racist. Now I'm sure the NAACP will run with this and drag Rush's name in the mud. Not to mention the Democrats will politicize this non-issue just as they have the CIA leak matter. In regards to that Bush has said he would fire anyone who leaked that info, but yet the democrats are blaming Bush and the republicans as a whole.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 10/1/2003, 3:59 pm

What did Rush say?

doug · Post by **doug** » 10/1/2003, 4:19 pm

I think Venom is referring to Limbaugh saying Donovan McNabb, quaterback for the Philidelphia Eagles, gets too much credit for his teams success over the last few years because he is black.

Limbaugh is of course, totally off base with those comments, but they're not racsist. they're just wrong and prove that he's brain dead when it comes to football knowledge.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 10/1/2003, 4:44 pm

well at least you agree that it wasn't racist. I think McNabb is a good quarterback just not great like the sports media makes him out to be. Also you didn't quite quote Rush correctly, he said its because the media want black quarterbacks to succeed. Everyone wants more Michael Vicks and so every black QB is hyped up.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 10/1/2003, 5:09 pm

Limbaugh is right with his comment, no doubt. He also had every right to say it. It wasn't racist. Everyone knows that minorities in sports are hyped up like no other.

Every black quarterback in the NFL is considered an instant star. Hell, look at last year's draft. Carson Palmer and Kyle Boller were drafted high, and were treated like any other normal player. Then Byron Leftwich gets drafted, and everyone flips out and says he will be the best QB out of the draft and is already a star and garbage like that. When it comes down to it, if you watched the NFL draft, you had like a 50% chance of knowing who Boller was, but if you watched the draft, everyone made sure you knew who Leftwich was.

But the reality is, if you're a minority, you'll have cameras follow you. Like in hockey, people flipped out about Scott Gomez because he had a Mexican heritage and played in the NHL. Now if any other player produced the same numbers he did, the other players would be unknown, but because it's a Mexican doing it, he's Jesus with ice skates.

And Venom, I honestly don't see how Limbaugh's statement will be some huge issue for the Democratic party. You're overreacting.

wanan · Post by **wanan** » 10/1/2003, 10:35 pm

Did anyone catch Law & Order tonight. It was about a black journalist who made up stories and commited a murder. His defense was that because of Affirmative Action he had more pressure on him to 'make it' than a white person would. He felt that people didn't think of him making it to the position he was in because of talent, but because he was black. If he failed he would have to face all the 'i told you so's', so he felt he had to make up the stories to maintain a certain level of excellence.

Anyway, I figured it was kinda relevent to this topic. It was a good episode.

wanan · Post by **wanan** » 10/1/2003, 10:40 pm

Oh yeah, what he said isn't racist, just stating his opinion.

It also bothers me when people use the race card. Not every white person is racist, and it really bothers me that only white people are considered the racist ones, when plenty of other minorities carry racism with them.

Every one is equal in my books.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 10/1/2003, 10:53 pm

Yeah, it's funny. I went to this meeting at my college, and they definitely let me know that only white people can be racist. I was floored by this. I couldn't believe a sensitivity counselor was telling me that only white people could possibly be racist. It's never like a black person called me a honkey or a cracker or anything. But yes, only I can be a racist, and not the member of the Black Panthers. Yep.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 10/1/2003, 10:55 pm

well, he's gone. he resigned. :uh:

i'm not sure what to say about this at all.

wanan · Post by **wanan** » 10/1/2003, 11:09 pm

Bandalero wrote:well, he's gone. he resigned.

i'm not sure what to say about this at all.

Wow. What is happening to freedom of speech.

Henrietta · Post by **Henrietta** » 10/1/2003, 11:20 pm

Rufus Wainwright wrote:Yeah, it's funny. I went to this meeting at my college, and they definitely let me know that only white people can be racist. I was floored by this. I couldn't believe a sensitivity counselor was telling me that only white people could possibly be racist. It's never like a black person called me a honkey or a cracker or anything. But yes, only I can be a racist, and not the member of the Black Panthers. Yep.

Exactly. I get so sick of that shit. I'm going to a Diversity Conference on Friday on campus, which is all well and good. But it's for an environment class and I can't really figure out how it relates...Here in Utah we don't have much "diversity", if you can imagine. But I'm afraid of getting really pissed at some of the speakers and topics they have planned. There are gonna be alot of pissed off people when when they start telling us we are racist, basically just by being alive, and that anyone not white is doomed and hurt.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 10/2/2003, 12:14 am

i support the ocasional racial movement, but these days they're really grabbing at almost nothing. they don't have a real clue what it is to have been discriminated against.

Post by **al_** » 10/2/2003, 1:31 am

I hope no one is offended by my black font

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 10/2/2003, 2:18 am

i have a few comments to make.. most of which are directed at alan .. but im not trying to start anything.. just a different perspective.. but from a minority.. saying that the media is pumping up a players image STRICTLY because of his colour is wrong.. *I* do NOT think its racist mind you but its just wrong. mcnabb does have a lot of hype surrounding him but considering he's a fucking QB and QBs are the FACE of the team (cept in baltimore and KC) but as a QB goes the team TENDS to go as well.. that isnt right either.. its kinda like that bud commercial with that guy who fumbled 4 times and blames the whole team.. same shit.. anyways.. if mcnabb had no talent he wouldnt play. simple as that. andy reid isnt a fucktard who needs to make his team look better by playing a non-white QB. hell if that were the case in NFL then i'd be handing out resumes for fucks sake. i'll admit mcnabb has NOT played well this year AT ALL and from what ive seen of him he's been downright awful. but so has staley and buckhalter and most of the rest of the team that doesnt mean its ALL mcnabb. enough of that.. thats not the point.. lol.. now for the stuff i wanted to say to alan.. im not picking on you or shit like that btw alan.. just some observations and what not..

Rufus Wainwright wrote:Every black quarterback in the NFL is considered an instant star. Hell, look at last year's draft. Carson Palmer and Kyle Boller were drafted high, and were treated like any other normal player. Then Byron Leftwich gets drafted, and everyone flips out and says he will be the best QB out of the draft and is already a star and garbage like that. When it comes down to it, if you watched the NFL draft, you had like a 50% chance of knowing who Boller was, but if you watched the draft, everyone made sure you knew who Leftwich was.

i watched the draft, i also have family in jax and follow the jags the reason everyone hyped the hell out of leftwich to that extent is a) the jags already have mark brunell who is LOVED in the community. you cant go ANYWHERE in jax w/o seeing his face plastered somewhere. he is considered by many to be the face of the team. b) leftwich was picked 7th overall. thats high. they have other more glaring needs then QB w/ brunell and David Garrard who was being touted around Jax as "the future" and shit like that. c) there is a lot of PR work and crap like that to get more recognition for the MAC.. and THAT NEEDS to be done.. they get jack shit for recognition by media and all that. d) leftwich was a finalist for the heisman and suffered a lot of injuries which he played thru.. i dont know about you but i personally would WANT to hype up a player who altho unable to WALK when the line of scrimmage changed and had to be CARRIED by his linemen can still lead his team to victory REGARDLESS of colour i'd be hyping THAT kind of performance.. but then again.. maybe thats just me.. heh e) i dont know about michigan but out just about everywhere else, carson palmer WAS being hyped up a lot. boller wasnt mind you but that has to do a lot with the fact he had 1 good year (his final year) at California.. a team that didnt exactly goto a major BCS game or do anything SPECTACULAR on the national spotlight.. that whole thing with the injury to leftwich was a way to look at an athelete who has the drive to win and the skill to pull it off .. it didnt matter that he was black all that mattered was that he was good. leftwich will be a good QB... so will boller and palmer probably will too.. but leftwich was touted as a high pick for a number of reasons and hyped for those.. i am by no means saying the hyping should ALWAYS occur.. hell i dont think matt millen and detroit SHOULD be fined for the whole mess with bringing Mooch in .. in that case.. its wrong.. the general RULE however to promote the hiring of black coaches is a good idea in principle however.. but it shouldnt be limited to african americans.. it should be EVERYONE. hell im sure theyres some brown folks out there who know a thing or 2 about football and could coach it but thats besides the point..

Rufus Wainwright wrote:Like in hockey, people flipped out about Scott Gomez because he had a Mexican heritage and played in the NHL. Now if any other player produced the same numbers he did, the other players would be unknown, but because it's a Mexican doing it, he's Jesus with ice skates.

this one is definately more up my alley to tackle.. heh.. first off.. the original hype about gomez was AT FIRST about his mexican heritage but that did NOT last long because after the whole initial shock thing wore off, his SKILL took the spotlight and he was hyped huge because of it... gomez shines in the playoffs.. he's helped the devils win 2 cups.. thats worthy of any hype or praise whether your from kuala lampur, halifax or nunavit... as for guys with comparable numbers or taken that year in the draft.. heres a little list:

1998 entry draft: (guys with over 250 games and forwards only [theres been plenty of defencemen w/ over 250 games from that year)

vincent lecavilier - 1st overall - 261 points - no cups.
david legwand - 2nd overall - 147 pts - no playoffs let alone cups
manny malhotra - 7th overall - 53 pts - no cups
alex tanguay - 11th overall - 243 pts - 1 cup
simon gagne - 22 overall - 200 pts - no cups
scott gomez - 27th overall - 236 pts - 2 cups

some "honourable mentions" belong in this list since they are very similar to gomez in style and physical stature..

mike fisher - 44th overall - 90 points - no cups (yet)
brad richards - 64th overall - 198 pts - no cups

out of those guys.. 2 guys (according to the whole minorities get hyped to hell logic) should be talked about as the second comings of the great one.. one was talked about a lot but has warranted the merit 9gomez) the other, malhotra is the first player of east indian descent to ever skate in the NHL.. he wasnt hyped and talked about much cuz he's done very little.. but by the way you and others (and more importantly by limbaugh's logic) he should be talked about... if dallas wins next year and manny scores a few goals in the playoffs.. is he gonna be the greatest thing since sliced bread? no. if mcnabb comes back and does decent this year (which he should) does that mean something? yes.. why? mcnabb is actually good.. malhotra's good too but not THAT good..

on another note.. robyn regehr was born in brazil.. he plays for the calgary flames.. he's actually a really good stay-at-home defencemen.. but he isnt hyped for being brazilian originally.. (he was also drafted in that 1998 draft 19th overall and has 36 pts in 282 games. like i said.. he's a stay-at-home d) or olaf kolzig.. he was actually born in south africa, moved to germany.. (then to dartmouth ns and went to my jr high interestingly enough) .. but he isnt hyped because he's south african or german.. he's hyped because he's talented and good at what he does.. mcnabb may have "help" but so does gomez, kolzig and regehr.. kolzig won the vezina for best goalie one year.. gomez won the calder for best rookie.. regehr may (ie. more than likely will never) win any major NHL awards (he did win the world juniors a fwe times i think) but that doesnt mean he isnt good.

oh btw.. the source of my data (hockey related) was the following site:
l for the draft related info http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1998e.htm

hmmm i think im done w/ my essay. :lol:

Dr. Hobo · Post by **Dr. Hobo** » 10/2/2003, 2:43 am

Venom wrote:Its so dispicable when people take advantage of their race.

who's taking anything to their advantage?

Donovan McNabb isn't looking for an apology from Rush Limbaugh, who said he was overrated because the media wanted to see a black quarterback succeed.

It's too late for that.

"He said what he said. ... I'm sure he's not the only one that feels that way but it's somewhat shocking to actually hear that on national TV," the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback said of Limbaugh at a news conference. "An apology would do no good because he obviously thought about it before he said it."

that doesnt seem to me like someone who is taking advantage of his race.. all he really said was "whatever" .. mcnabb, obviously, thinks he's good and is that so wrong? hell heres another quote for ya straight from the horses mouth:

McNabb, who was runner-up for the league MVP award in 2000 and has led the Eagles to two straight NFC championship games, said he has no quarrel with Limbaugh's comment on his playing ability. "I know I played badly the first two games," he said Wednesday.

altho, mcnabb does go on to say:

McNabb said that Limbaugh's comments about his race were out of bounds and added that someone on the show should have taken him on. Among the other panelists are former players Michael Irvin and Tom Jackson, both of whom are black.

"I'm not pointing at anyone but someone should have said it," McNabb said of the panelists, who also include Berman and Steve Young. "I wouldn't have cared if it was the cameraman."

but really tho, ANYONE would feel hurt or pissed after something like that regardless of skin colour or any of that crap. mcnabb knows he's played poorly. he admits to it. but to be called out by name and say he's overhyped because of his skin colour is wrong even when done without the intent to be racist or whatever is wrong.. callout a player based on his ability or his play is fine. if limbaugh just said "Mcnabb is overated by the media" NONE of this wouldve happened.. but by adding the "because he's black, the media wants to pump up his image" thats as mcnabb said, uncalled for.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » 10/2/2003, 6:27 am

And Venom, I honestly don't see how Limbaugh's statement will be some huge issue for the Democratic party. You're overreacting.

Its real simple actually. The democratic party in the past couple decades has put out this image claiming to be more racially "friendly" than the republicans. In reality they use reverse racism a lot. Rush is the poster boy of the Republicans so I'm sure (and they already have) will attack Rush and the republicans as a whole of being racist and will politicize this non-issue for the rest of the election year.

Sandman: When I say people use their race as an advantage I mean that when anything that is said can be construed in some way to be racist they jump all over it. The NAACP is notorious for this. Its one thing when something is racist, but its another to twist words around and claim that its racist. Its dispicable and really upsetting. Just in the past week I have seen this come up way too often. People are so afraid to discuss race in any way now adays for fear of being called a racist.

Another example. The NFL bent under pressure last year because people complained that there weren't enough black coaches in the NFL. To be honest I think there is a equal proportion of black NFL coaches compared to white as there is black people in the US as compared to white. If this is an issue where are all the white running backs? If the league needs more black coachs then they sure need more white running backs.

The McNabb thing is the same as the Jason Sehorn thing a few years back. He was hyped way up (and STILL is) for being a white cornerback. HEs not that good!! Was that racist??

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 10/2/2003, 12:12 pm

on an unrelated note:

the term "reverse racism" is the most idiotic phrase ever coined, right up there with "reverse sexism". racism is racism and sexism is sexism, no matter which colour or gender is perpetrating it.

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 10/2/2003, 3:28 pm

that law and order plot you were talking about is based on recent true events involving a black report named jayson blair who was fired from the new york times after it was revealed that he made up stories.

he didn't kill anyone though, but it was widely speculated that he was promoted within the ranks of the times instead of being fired (upper management and editing staff had observed blair's factual inaccuracies prior to his being fired and recommend firing him or sending him to a smaller, times owned newspaper to "learn the ropes") because he was black.

wanan · Post by **wanan** » 10/2/2003, 5:12 pm

^ Yeah, it sure made for good drama.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 10/2/2003, 6:34 pm

I feel bad for Rush. I'm not exactly a fan but this guy is getting branded a racist for no good reason. There are folks leading calls for him to withdraw from radio altogether. There goes free speech out the window. You can't say anything anymore without being considered a bigot. Was what he said THAT bad??

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Here we go with the race card again

Here we go with the race card again

Re: Here we go with the race card again