We already had the WWII argument and Alan (who said the same thing as you) was proven wrong! I think its in the 9/11 topic. The US did not come in at the last second. They were there in 1942 and whether you wanna admit it or not they saved France. Germany ran through France in a matter of weeks. When the US jumped in is when the allies started winning battles. Theres no argument here. Read a book instead of guessing or regurgitating BS you were told. It makes you look very foolish.
actuallyi have read a book, 2 years ago i took american history, at the time america and France were pretty close, so there wasn't much bias. Besides there was alot more to the history then just ww2, France and america are both synomous with the word Demcracy. Your country has had many many ties with France that were all cut and forgotten over what? A disagreement over war? Freedom Fries? Anti-French promtion? How mature is that? A old friend is willing to step up and tell a friend when he thinks his friend is wrong, that's what France did
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
We already had the WWII argument and Alan (who said the same thing as you) was proven wrong!
No, actually you were the one proven wrong. Do you actually pay attention to what people post, or are you so high up on your pedestal that you can't admit when you're wrong.
Wow, I am glad I am not the only one that noticed how incredibly stupid Venom is. How was I proven wrong Venom? I posted infomation on my side of the subject, and you said no and provided 0 links to prove otherwise, and that obviously proves me wrong. Next time, try to prove me wrong by saying something that shows I am wrong. You said nothing to dispute my claims, you moron.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
The US entered WWII in 1942. However, they were not fighting in Europe, they were fighting what was pretty much their personal war against the Japanese in the pacific isles.
They assisted the brittish against Rommel in Africa in November 1942. That was the first time the Americans faced the germans. V-E Day was May 8, 1944. That means that the Americans entered the war in Europe 18 months before it ended. The war in Europe lasted 56 months, starting in September of 1939.
The americans were involved in the war in Europe for 1/3 of it's total duration. That more or less counts as the tail end, considering that fighting had been going on in Europe for over 3 years before the US forces got involved.
The United States had precisely zero to do with the Germans being pushed out of Russia. They (americans) led no offensives on their own. The Americans fought where the Germans weren't, which was Africa and axis-controlled nations during the liberation efforts. Venom, your country didn't defeat Hitler. The turning of the tide was Stalingrad, not Pearl Harbour.
Thanks for coming out, Venom.
<p align="center">[glow=black]Beggars stare at the brand new sneakers on the[/glow]
[glow=white]Anarchists[/glow] [glow=black]and_[/glow][glow=white]celebrity speakers[/glow]
[glow=black]These are improbable days my friends[/glow]</p>
^to add to these well stated arguments, I think we should also remember that the US didn't enter the war in order to spread 'good' around the world, they only joined when they were being threatened and they could no longer benefit from an isolationist policy.
See, America wasn't even being an isolationist country before we entered the war. Text books for my AP US History class specifically said that Roosevelt was sending Great Britain weapons on boats, and the Germans found out about this and started sinking out boats. Roosevelt was looking to get in this war, and he held out on evacuating Pearl Harbor. He took off all the highest ranking officials and let the commoners in the navy get the shit bombed out of them. Facts rock, don't they?
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
it was a german spy on the island of Hawaii that signaled japanese planes (with a flashlight) to come into pearl harbor and attack it. the US was told about this too, but disreguarded it.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
actually Alan, like world war 1, the us wanted to supply all armies involed with supplies during world war 2. in world war 1, the english raided US ships bound for germany and took the supplies. this would have pissed off the US, but they paid for the supplies they essentially stole. and as long as the US got a check, they didn't care. so it was germany that was forced to blow up any US cargo ship. that let to war for the US in WW1. the same can be said for WW2, however, with the capture of the german spy at Pearl Harbor, it became clear to the US that germany and Japan were the same enemy.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
i may be wrong but i seem to remeber learning in american history that at one ery early stage america was actually trapped between decided which side to joing due to german ties and long lasting german immpressions on American culture
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
Your dead wrong and in the words of Alan "find me some proof that your right". In fact many in the Roosevelt administration wanted to help the allies well before 1941 but Congress would have nothing to do with it.
The United States watched these events. Many Americans did not want to join in the war. President Roosevelt wanted to help the Allies, however. He asked Congress to allow Britain and France to buy American weapons. Soon, American ships were escorting British ships carrying guns bought from the United States. By the fall of 1941, U.S. ships had orders to fire on German sub-marines that threatened the ships. The United States and Germany were fighting an undeclared naval war. Roosevelt met with Churchill off the coast of Canada in August of 1941. Although the United States was not officially in the war, the two leaders issued a statement called the Atlantic Charter. It supported free trade and the right of people to form their own government.
I was actually the Soviets that were friendly with the Germans in 1939.
FDR called for modest rearmament. It was clear to him that the world had become too dangerous for the US to continue have a small, ill-equipped military. The USSR and Germany signed a non-aggression agreement the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, 1939 allowing both top annex territory in eastern Europe and the Soviets a free hand in its war against Finland. Not free of the fear of Soviet resistance, Germany invaded Poland on September 1, 1939. France and England declared war on Germany but logistical factors made it nigh impossible to aid Poland. Some called the lull a "phony war." The US reaction in November, 1939, was to declare an arms embargo and require that all trade be on a cash and carry basis. It still believed the Nye Commission.
The European war got worse. Germany, having taken Poland and other eastern European territory, turned westward and invaded Denmark, Norway, and the Low Countries. Germany then invaded France in June. The French put up a fierce resistance and many died; the French had lost a generation of men defending Paris in the First World War; seeing that the Germans could and would destroy Paris and that France was beaten, they surrendered.
People in the US were split about what the nation should do. Isolationists argued that what the Europeans did was not a US affair. Reformers were convinced that participation in a war would end the New Deal. Anglophobes wanted to see England get its comeuppance. But other Americans, including Roosevelt, were not neutral. FDR wanted to help Great Britain and, at first, thought he could without getting the US involved in the war. As events occurred, his opinion changed to thinking he might be able to keep the country out. Finally, he concluded that it was a matter of time. And Congress had changed its opinion, for it passed a one billion dollar defense appropriation bill in May, 1940. In September, the US loaned destroyers to Great Britain in return for bases in the Caribbean. The Selective Service Act, a peacetime draft, was passed that year.
There's a great difference between talking and doing. Hell, I could say I wanna save all the homeless people I can and tell everyone that's what I'm going to do, but if I don't do it it means nothing at all.
I can't wait until the day schools are over-funded and the military is forced to hold bake sales to buy planes.
"It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to surprise yourself. Makes you wonder what else you can do that you've forgotten about"
What the hell are you talking about??? I was proving Clumsy wrong in his poor attempt at saying the US thought about siding with the Germans. I proved that the Soviets were the ones who originally signed a nonaggression agreement. They are to be suspect if anyone. Also I pointed out that FDR went to congress and tried to get them to vote on helping the British but they would have nothing to do with it. Now tell me how whatever you're saying has anything to do with what I posted?? Of course FDR couldn't do it he didn't have Congress behind him so what are you insinuating???
Yeah...Venom is right on this one. We never tried to help Germany out or side with them, well, at least I've never been taught that before. Roosevelt wanted in the war, Congess wouldn't let it happen though, and that's why he did nothing to prevent Pearl Harbor, because if we had our military attacked, we would have no choice but to enter the war.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
Well, I don't have any evidence to support Sean, but I must say that I also distinctly remember in High School history hearing that the US contemplated joining the war on Germany's side.
I never remember hearing that. I couldn't tell you if it's definitely true or not, but my text books that were issued for my classes were very unbiased when it came to describing situations, not to mention my teacher was an anti-war guy that got shipped off to Vietnam too. If there was any contemplation about the USA joining German forces, I am pretty sure I'd have heard about it.
I faced death. I went in with my arms swinging. But I heard my own breath and had to face that I'm still living. I'm still flesh. I hold on to awful feelings. I'm not dead... My chest still draws breath. I hold it. I'm buoyant. There's no end.
Now that I think about it, it could have been something more to the effect that the German population living in the US was pressuring the gov't to join on Germany's side, but the gov't never had any actual intentions of doing so.
well, during WW1 were were neutral all the way through. it was when the germans started sinking supplies sent to Britian that made the friendship go bad. the resentment of this carried into world war 2 i'm sure.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
yeah Joels right possiby it was that, my American History is a bit rusty seeing as how i took it 3 years ago, and i'm not exactly american so i didn't dedicate my life to remembering it
"How can we justify spending so much on destruction and so little on life?" Matthew Good
"The white dove is gone, the one world has come down hard, so why not share the pain of our problems, when all around are wrong ways, when all around is hurt, i'll roll up in an odd shape and wait, untill the tide has turned.....with anger, i'm dead weight, i'm anchored"- IME, God Rocket (Into the Heart of Las Vegas) ^ Some say this song is about a terrorists thoughts before 911
"Pray for the sheep" Matt Good
"But it's alright, take the world and make it yours again" Matt Good
I felt it in the wind, and i saw it in the sky, i thought it was the end, i thought it was the 4th of July.
"Hold on, hold on children, your mother and father are leaving, hold on, hold on children your best freind's parents are leaving, leaving,.......*AHHH*! " - Death From Above - Black History Month
After they found a german spy was responsible for plotting the attack on pearl harbor, the US opened up camps and put suspected communist, anarchist, Nazis, Facist, and Black Dragon fighters in the mid-section of the us. there was one about 20 miles where i used to live, and an actual survivor of these camps. his account of this was that they were kind of like army barracks, and you could leave camp whenever you liked, you could go to the shops and buy groceries and clothing if you so choose. you worked in the winter gardens, and got paid well too. the most unique thing about it all is this: if you were like a Nazi or a Black Dragon fighter, that you could actually practice it's teachings. as well as any religion you so chose. even anarchist and communist were allowed to preach their philosophies. the barter system was used too. the only thing was that it led to prison gangs, where the germans thought they were better then the Japanese and shit like that.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
