No more smoking in New York State

Narbus · Post by **Narbus** » 8/19/2003, 5:40 pm

You should be subjected to inhaling harmful materials because the owner of the bar/restaurant/whatever, the person who put forth the money, time, and effort to create this business, has decide that on their private property smoking is allowed.

That is why.

Bandalero · Post by **Bandalero** » 8/20/2003, 12:10 am

and you can bet that someone is going to sue over it.

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 8/20/2003, 1:20 am

who the hell is this guy who has 5 posts?

i said i have allergies

if i were allergic to cig. smoke do u think id smoke? are u retarded?

the point is why the fuck should i cut my enjoyment because of someone else. thats bullshit, im completely within my legal rights here.

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 8/20/2003, 1:21 am

and smoking is a right, its not a priviledge

everyone can smoke if they wanted to

thats why its a right

if only a certain section of society, say, people who made a certain amount of money, then it would be a priviledge.

learn the difference.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 8/20/2003, 6:08 am

To turn a quote from you around...

why the fuck should i cut my enjoyment because of someone else. thats bullshit, im completely within my legal rights here.

The same could be said by non-smokers.

Eelco · Post by **Eelco** » 8/20/2003, 6:09 am

BloodRayn wrote:
the point is why the fuck should i cut my enjoyment because of someone else. thats bullshit, im completely within my legal rights here.

People go to restaurants nd bars for enjoyments, but people who can't stand smoke can't go there because of all the people smoking. So they have to cut their enjoyment for you. That's just as unfair, isn't it?

Narbus · Post by **Narbus** » 8/20/2003, 9:29 am

I don't care how fair or not it is to you. You can just go to a different resturant. I don't go to the chinese place in town because I don't like chinese food. Should we make a law forcing them to serve burgers and pizza so I can be happy? No. I simply choose to not go there.
You don't have any right to go onto someone else's private property. You seem to think otherwise.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 8/20/2003, 10:00 am

Face it Narbus, they don't understand simple rights here. We've said that no one has the right to enforce laws on private property dozens of times in this thread, and each time, we've been met with resistance. There's no getting through to these people. For some reason, no one here can quite grasp what private property really is, even if we break it down in simple analogies to make it even easier for them to comprehend.

So let's put this in layman's terms for you people that still think it's fine to ban smoking. Try to keep up with me here. It might be hard to understand, but it's pretty important that we all read this with an open mind here.

I have no right to tell anyone what to do with their private property, and neither do you. If I own a bar and want smoking to go on there, you have no right to tell me that I can't let my bar patrons smoke there. It's my decision as to how I want to run my bar, not yours, not your mother's, not the government's, but mine. I don't tell you how to live your life, so stay out of mine. If you think that the no smoking sections at a restaurant aren't good enough for you, open your own restaurant and ban smoking. It's that simple. If I smoke on your property, you have the right to make me leave. Plain and simple.

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 8/20/2003, 11:44 am

here here

bort8 · Post by **bort8** » 8/20/2003, 3:22 pm

there's a difference between private property that one uses for personal use...and private property that is used to provide services or run businesses....they must follow certain law, rules, and regulations that are imposed for one reason or another......there are numerous things that any business (even on someone's own private property) has to comply with, and now that in many places there is a law saying that smoking is not allowed, it is just another compliance they must deal with. in any case, they can't just do WHATEVER they feel like doing

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 8/20/2003, 4:03 pm

It's like I type and people just can't grasp this concept. I can't simplify it anymore. This just frustrates me too much. I can't see why you people don't understand that no one should have the right to tell me what I may and may not to with my property. It's not brain surgery here people, it's understanding basic rights.

I will say this one last time. If people have such a big deal with smoking that it's banned from all public places, then make cigarettes illegal. If they're so bad for everyone around it, then why are they still legally sold?

Narbus · Post by **Narbus** » 8/20/2003, 11:03 pm

bort8 wrote:there's a difference between private property that one uses for personal use...and private property that is used to provide services or run businesses....they must follow certain law, rules, and regulations that are imposed for one reason or another......there are numerous things that any business (even on someone's own private property) has to comply with, and now that in many places there is a law saying that smoking is not allowed, it is just another compliance they must deal with. in any case, they can't just do WHATEVER they feel like doing

And those laws are also wrong. So long as the person running the business does not forcefully endanger the life, liberty, or property of others, there should be no regulations, same as on private homes.

(And before you say it, smoking in bars is not forcefully endangering people because you aren't being forced to go there. You choose to go there.)

bort8 · Post by **bort8** » 8/20/2003, 11:30 pm

just because u say the law is wrong, doesnt mean its wrong.....then again, just cause i say its right, doesnt mean its right either.....the fact of the matter is, it IS the law...so go ahead and bitch, moan, and complain about how youre being oppressed all u want....i say, learn to live with it, and carry on with your life doing something more productive

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 8/21/2003, 12:17 am

and too all you people who say we voted on this

they just tried to enact this smoking ban in toledo, we never voted on it.

and ill tell you something else

toledo has the highest % of smokers of its population in this country. do you really think if we got to vote on it it would pass?

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 8/21/2003, 12:18 am

read my sig quote. that is what this country has come to. ignorance is celebrated.

happening fish · Post by **happening fish** » 8/22/2003, 10:01 am

I hope this is goodbye wrote:If people have such a big deal with smoking that it's banned from all public places, then make cigarettes illegal. If they're so bad for everyone around it, then why are they still legally sold?

Actually, it seems to me like that's the direction things are headed in. Since the tobacco industry IS so huge and such an in/out for large amounts of money, it's not something that can just be cut out by the roots. The government's been hacking at this tree for a while now. They wouldn't get away with pushing through a law that bans all cigarettes, so they started small and are working their way up as the public's opinion gradually changes. Hell, it is illegal to advertise cigarettes in magazines, on TV, on billboards... you think a few years ago these bans would have passed? Not a chance. It's a result of a cumulative effect of years of lesser bans that have slipped through. From what I'm seeing, cigarettes as a legal substance are slowly but surely on their way out.

Sufjan Stevens · Post by **Sufjan Stevens** » 8/22/2003, 10:03 am

If that's the case, then fine. Make it illegal. I wouldn't mind. I don't smoke, and I never will, but if you take the right of people being able to smoke away from the people in private places, then I have a problem with it.

Lando · Post by **Lando** » 8/22/2003, 10:08 am

Tat wrote:
I hope this is goodbye wrote:If people have such a big deal with smoking that it's banned from all public places, then make cigarettes illegal. If they're so bad for everyone around it, then why are they still legally sold?

Actually, it seems to me like that's the direction things are headed in. Since the tobacco industry IS so huge and such an in/out for large amounts of money, it's not something that can just be cut out by the roots. The government's been hacking at this tree for a while now. They wouldn't get away with pushing through a law that bans all cigarettes, so they started small and are working their way up as the public's opinion gradually changes. Hell, it is illegal to advertise cigarettes in magazines, on TV, on billboards... you think a few years ago these bans would have passed? Not a chance. It's a result of a cumulative effect of years of lesser bans that have slipped through. From what I'm seeing, cigarettes as a legal substance are slowly but surely on their way out.

Isn't it only illegal to advertise these products in Canada? I think the USA can still advertise...

starvingeyes · Post by **starvingeyes** » 8/22/2003, 10:19 am

cigarettes will never be illegal. both the anti-tobacco lobby and the tobacco lobby will fight to keep them available.

anti-tobacco lobbyists need legal cigarettes in order to ensure the survival of their multi million dollar business.

nelison · Post by **nelison** » 8/22/2003, 11:07 am

ya Lando, in Canada, they can no longer advertise or use their name as a sponsor for any type of event.

Cigarettes will never be completely banned but the govt sure is doing its part for them to not be used. In Canada cigarette taxes are huge. You have to pay upwards of around 6 or 7 dollars for a pack of smokes where I live. And I wouldn't be surprised if that price increased in the near future.

The problem with a privately owned building setting the laws within its walls is that the public would have to know the rules of every single place. For all I know a convenience store could have a law that says they have the right to shoot you when you walk in, but the one next door doesn't. What if 50% of the stores had this law? You'd have a 1 in 2 chance of being shot. I'd hate to be going on vacation somewhere and not realize that the minute I step through a door I'm going to be killed, only because I didn't do enough homework and discover which buildings I can safely go in and which I cannot.
That's why laws were developped for the entire population. It creates a safer environment for everyone, otherwise we'd spend all our time tip-toeing around wondering if we were commiting a crime without even knowing it.

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No more smoking in New York State