[/bleeding sarcasm]
here's something for all you men's activists
here's something for all you men's activists
Men are victims of pornography! It's not their fault they look at it! They're victims! VICTIMS!
[/bleeding sarcasm]
[/bleeding sarcasm]
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sandsleeper
- Posts: 4210
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happening fish
- Posts: 17934
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starvingeyes
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
and drunk people are victims of alcohol etc. etc.
but on a more serious note, let me remind you all that <i>this is your belief structure in action</i>. if you honestly believe that there are no such thing as individual choices and everything you do is interconnected, then i don't understand why it is such a leap to accuse porn manufacturers, alcohol manufacturers etc. of being responsible for the side effects of their products.
i of course, can sit back and call this sort of bullshit for what it is. however, this is just another example of the incostencies in the belief application of your average republicrat.
but on a more serious note, let me remind you all that <i>this is your belief structure in action</i>. if you honestly believe that there are no such thing as individual choices and everything you do is interconnected, then i don't understand why it is such a leap to accuse porn manufacturers, alcohol manufacturers etc. of being responsible for the side effects of their products.
i of course, can sit back and call this sort of bullshit for what it is. however, this is just another example of the incostencies in the belief application of your average republicrat.
starving eyes wrote:and drunk people are victims of alcohol etc. etc.
but on a more serious note, let me remind you all that <i>this is your belief structure in action</i>. if you honestly believe that there are no such thing as individual choices and everything you do is interconnected, then i don't understand why it is such a leap to accuse porn manufacturers, alcohol manufacturers etc. of being responsible for the side effects of their products.
i of course, can sit back and call this sort of bullshit for what it is. however, this is just another example of the incostencies in the belief application of your average republicrat.
HAHAHAHAHAH.
So. We're not all interconnected and such, but OUR belief system is what generates this kind of thing? It's us. It's our fault for thinking this way. But our actions don't impact others.
You are a strange, strange boy.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
narbus, you're the one who first suggested that all our actions are interconnected. following that train of thought leads us to the conclusion that men are victims of porn.
all he was saying is that a republicrat wrote that article and the average republicrat either agrees with the article or has agreed with like minded blame-spreading material.
he's not blaming YOU for the state of the world.
btw, i say we're not interconnected, i say that men are not victims of porn.
all he was saying is that a republicrat wrote that article and the average republicrat either agrees with the article or has agreed with like minded blame-spreading material.
he's not blaming YOU for the state of the world.
btw, i say we're not interconnected, i say that men are not victims of porn.
Don't get me wrong, I think the article is retarded. I could go through and dismantle it, but let's just stick with "retarded."
I do find it humorous that after all the cries of "we're not connected, we have no impact on each other," he falls back onto the cry of your and you people. If he really thinks we're not interconnected, then why isn't this the author's problem? Why is it society's fault that this article was written?
I do find it humorous that after all the cries of "we're not connected, we have no impact on each other," he falls back onto the cry of your and you people. If he really thinks we're not interconnected, then why isn't this the author's problem? Why is it society's fault that this article was written?
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
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starvingeyes
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
narbus your beliefs directly effect my life not because "we're all interconnected" and so on and so forth but because you directly invoke the use of deadly force to make me live my life as per your beliefs. it's called voting.
tell me: if you believe that we are "all interconnected" and I have to take some responsibility for the poor being poor etc. which turns into your collectivist "social responsibility", why then do porn manufacturers, alcohol manufacturers and the like not have to take responsibility for the indirect effect their choices have on others?
it is the same thing. you cannot have it both ways. your problem is that you often allow your emotions to cloud your beliefs. when you see a poor person starving on the street, your emotions tell you that it is wrong, that society owes this person a debt, that he cannot be at fault for his own situation. however, you do not feel such sympathy for the white man who is "addicted to porn (if such a thing even exists)" so you believe that he is a product of his own isolated choices.
no. we are all products of our own isolated choices. other people cannot possibly be held responsible for the indirect effect on our lives their decisions may have had, as they cannot possibly know how each one of their choices could ripple into our lives. it is impossible for us to try and accurately predict the actions of others, and as such we should not spend time troubling over their decisions.
the only life we can control is our own. period. you are responsible for your actions no matter what the mitigating circumstances.
tell me: if you believe that we are "all interconnected" and I have to take some responsibility for the poor being poor etc. which turns into your collectivist "social responsibility", why then do porn manufacturers, alcohol manufacturers and the like not have to take responsibility for the indirect effect their choices have on others?
it is the same thing. you cannot have it both ways. your problem is that you often allow your emotions to cloud your beliefs. when you see a poor person starving on the street, your emotions tell you that it is wrong, that society owes this person a debt, that he cannot be at fault for his own situation. however, you do not feel such sympathy for the white man who is "addicted to porn (if such a thing even exists)" so you believe that he is a product of his own isolated choices.
no. we are all products of our own isolated choices. other people cannot possibly be held responsible for the indirect effect on our lives their decisions may have had, as they cannot possibly know how each one of their choices could ripple into our lives. it is impossible for us to try and accurately predict the actions of others, and as such we should not spend time troubling over their decisions.
the only life we can control is our own. period. you are responsible for your actions no matter what the mitigating circumstances.
starving eyes wrote:narbus your beliefs directly effect my life not because "we're all interconnected" and so on and so forth but because you directly invoke the use of deadly force to make me live my life as per your beliefs. it's called voting.
I voted once in my life, when I turned 18. So go away.
tell me: if you believe that we are "all interconnected" and I have to take some responsibility for the poor being poor etc. which turns into your collectivist "social responsibility", why then do porn manufacturers, alcohol manufacturers and the like not have to take responsibility for the indirect effect their choices have on others?
Look. If you're going to go throwing all these labels around, you could at the very least throw the right ones around. I'm a libertarian, not a collectivist.
And you're completely missing the damn point.
When you decided to turn this into another one of these threads, you invoked the words "your society," when placing blame. You did not blame the author for holding retarded views, you blamed society. And then you claimed that we have no effect on each other. But society, which is by definition the interconnections between people, is what caused this article to be written. I made no statement as to what I think of collectivism in this thread. I pointed out that you claim we don't have an effect on each other, but you blame the effects we have on each other for this article, ergo you are a hypocrite.
You go so far as to say: "the only life we can control is our own. period. you are responsible for your actions no matter what the mitigating circumstances." But you still blame society at large for the article, and the (supposed) dearth of personal responsibility plauging the world today. You are the one who wants it both ways here. Not me.
By the way, my views on charity are that you shouldn't force it. Welfare, medicare, etc should all be donation funded, not required by law. This isn't because I feel people suck or anything, but I don't think anyone should be forced to give their money up in these ways.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
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starvingeyes
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
a) the fact that what we do necessarily affects others, and
b) the fact that some dumbasses can't take responsibility for their porn addiction
well
a. if everything we do affects others AND we must accept responsibility for these indirect spinoff effects then
a porn manufacturer must accept responsibility for the fact that somebody else allowed himself, voluntarily to become addicted to porn.
some dumbasses also cannot take responsibility for their poverty, drug addiction, etc. etc. etc. however, you believe that in these cases, it is both fair and correct to hold others whose actions may have had an indirect effect on their lives responsible. where then, do you draw the line? your morality, as seen here, is clearly arbitrary. why do you presume to have the God give right to force other people to live according to your personal tastes?
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starvingeyes
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: 5/8/2002, 3:44 pm
- Location: california's not very far
