the nazi mentality

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/19/2003, 3:21 pm

narbus have you any idea of what rational means?

there are no contradictions, there are no grey areas. that's rational thinking right there. you are the one who is irrational.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/19/2003, 3:22 pm

hollow minds wrote:narbus, you are absolutely correct, humans made up government. that doesn't mean its' a good thing.

the same humans you trust to leave you alone without the governement

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/19/2003, 3:24 pm

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rational

1. Having or exercising the ability to reason.
2. Of sound mind; sane.
3. Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior.
4. expressed as a quotient of integers.

tell me why voting is none of these things

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/19/2003, 3:36 pm

voting is illogical. it is not based on reason.

taking action out of self interest as long as you do not violate the right of others to act in their self interest is rational. when you vote, you restrict the rational right of others to make their own choices free of coercion, because if i vote yes on a law and you vote no, and the no side wins, then my rights suddenly become void.

whereas if on a seperate issue my vote is the winning side then you lose and your rights are not valid.

the circumstances are the same in both cases: there is an issue where two opposing sides exist. in one your rights are invalid and in another mine are. this is not logical, it is a contradiction. how can your rights logically depend on the opinions of others?

a theory is logical if it applies all the time in all circumstances. if you find that your theory does not, you have arrived at a contradiction. now it is time to check your premises.

voting creates contradictions. therefore it is illogical, unreasonalbe, and irrational.

in this post i also explained how voting is a form of force.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/19/2003, 3:41 pm

voting doesn't create contradictions. it settles them.

If you think drugs are good for people and I think they are bad for people then that is a contradiction.

If we hold a vote and the majority decides they are bad, the contradiction is settled. Drugs are bad, mmkay.

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/19/2003, 3:49 pm

you're right corey, we are contradicting ourselves in your example. but one of us has to be right.

you could ask the majority to decide for us, but i can show you how that would be illogical. you ask the majority in the state A to decide and they side with you. I ask the majority in state B and they side with me.

where are we? right back where we started, only with a lot more people involved.

so what we do instead is conduct a study and we find that taking drugs generally has a long term negative effect. now we have a concrete answer.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/19/2003, 3:52 pm

That's right. And that is why there is a hierarchy of government. In your state drugs are legal where as in mine they are not.

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/19/2003, 3:55 pm

i knew you might come back with something like that.

ok, so on the drugs issue we have a resolution. all the people who dont' want drugs move to yours and vice versa. but then we have a new issue, say gun control. now we need more states in order for everyone to be free of oppression. until finally, as more and more issues come up where there are more and more sides and fewer and fewer people agree, we arrive at the following situation:

every person is a state unto himself. he takes his own votes. he does his own thing. and do you know what that is called? freedom.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/19/2003, 4:15 pm

well played. However we have not reached that point yet where every single person feels he/she must govern his/her self. You weigh the costs. Which is more important to me? Guns or Drugs? Do I need a gun? yes. Do I need drugs? no. Would I rather live in an area with high taxes and low unemployment or low taxes and high unemployment? You take the bad with the good.

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/19/2003, 4:20 pm

why should you have to? i don't want to. others may, and i feel fine with letting them. but i want to govern myself and i can't do that because of government not letting me. to me, that' wrong. i know it's irrational.

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 3/19/2003, 4:44 pm

ok , say there is no government

whats to stop me from walking over and killing you, or stealing from you, or raping your daughter

and if i do one of these things, who decides the punishment?

these are reasons why governments exist. we choose people to make these decisions for us , in our best interest. this is why we vote.
the world will always disagree on things, because everyone has an opinion, that is what makes us human. if there were no one to control these opinions, then what are we left with? complete and total chaos. how would we purchase things like food? you need a government to monitor these types of things, and no, democracy is not the best type of government IN THEORY. socialism, in theory, is the most fair and equal government. but as we know, that does not work... so therefore the most fair and equal WORKING government is democracy. i dont see you hooting and hollering at the canadian government.......even tho they have EVEN MORE CONTROL over your own personal life than the US gov. has over ours. before you start ripping down our RATIONAL and working system maybe you oughta take a look at your own. it doesn't seem that long ago that ontario wanted to form its own country.... deal with your own problems before you start attempting to sound intelligent and attacking our government......and dont forget.......without the US .....there would be no canada.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/19/2003, 4:46 pm

In Doug's defense, he does attack his own government... just not nearly as often.

Axtech · Post by **Axtech** » 3/19/2003, 4:46 pm

Canada is no more dependant on the US than any other friendly neighbouring country.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 3/19/2003, 4:49 pm

Axtech wrote:Canada is no more dependant on the US than any other friendly neighbouring country.

Canada's Trading Partners - Exports / Imports (2000)

US: 86% / 76%

Japan: 3% / 3%

UK: <1% / <1%

US is Canada's largest trading partner.

I would say that is a bit more dependent than on any other of ifs neighbors.

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/19/2003, 4:51 pm

i'm not explaining, again, why we don't need government. i've done it a thousand times in this forum. do a fucking search.

and if the canadians ever did anything like go to war i'd be all over them. i hate canadian government just as much if not more then i hate amerikan government.

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 3/19/2003, 5:09 pm

yea because you're an ungrateful son of a bitch

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/19/2003, 5:10 pm

what the hell do i owe yours or any government?

oh thats right... nothing.

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 3/19/2003, 5:12 pm

oh really

you dont owe the government anything

mosaik · Post by **mosaik** » 3/19/2003, 5:12 pm

that's what i said isn't it?

Ignignokt · Post by **Ignignokt** » 3/19/2003, 5:14 pm

i was just checking to make sure thats what you said, and meant it.

let me ask you this.... without the government , would you have that computer you're typing on?

no.

would you have the job that you are working?

no.

would you be getting the education from school?

no.

there's just a few things on a long list that you owe to your government.

ClumsyMonkey.net

ClumsyMonkey.net

the nazi mentality