ok. i know there's a hojillion threads re: iraq
but i'm making another one, sort of, this one is more about amerika.
i've been trying to figure out where this flag-waving patriotism comes from. i've been trying to figure out why so few of you can let go of your "proud to be an american!" mentality.
then i started thinking about another country that was nearly impossible to beat in wars, another counry that started aggressive war against the wishes of the League of Nations and most every other country in the world. i started thinking about how all the other nations did was appease, appease appease until it was too late.
i also started thinking about how strong nationalism was in germany. and i asked myself why they were so proud.
1.) they had a great military.
2.) they believed that the german "aryan" race was superior to all other races on earth.
3.) they believed that they WERE germany. it wasn't just the place they lived, it was their mother. it was part of them. they would die for germany.
now, don't they make you take the pledge of allegiance to the american flag in public schools down there? haven't they over the last decade or two driven it into your heads that america is not a country on it's own, it's a country of "you, the people?"
"you, the people, are what makes this the greatest nation in the world! god bless america!" - typical quote from nazi politician
we are also bombarded with assertions that demockracy is the greatest form of government. so we know that, according to americans and their so-called rational thinking minds:
america is the greatest counry on earth and their form of goverment is the greatest form of government on earth. and you the people ARE america.
STOP. Tell me at this point if you agree with that. BE HONEST.
because when you say you do, will you then say "gee, that doesn't sound AT ALL like the nazis!"
and now you're starting an agressive war, with plans for an indefinite occupation. heil to the cheif!
the nazi mentality
what you have just described is ones pride in their country...this has NOTHING to do with nazis. Like most people in their respected countries, your going to find a lot of people proud to be in their country and proud of their military, you canadians are no better then Nazis in that respect. Mexicans are fond of their country, cubans are fond of their country, Nazis were found of their country, canadiands are found of their country, and americans are fond of their country. if you look at any graduating class comming out of any army in the world they think they are the best godamn squad that the world has ever seen. You know it's not true, in fact they know it's not true, but they are proud of themselves...there is nothing wrong with that. Nazis felt the same way about their squads.
This is just an example of a basic argument rule: if you want to make a strong argument against someone call them Nazis, because they take offense and can barely back it up. you messed up your argument here by assuming that being proud of your country is the equivalent of be a Nazi...nice try, but it didn't work.
This is just an example of a basic argument rule: if you want to make a strong argument against someone call them Nazis, because they take offense and can barely back it up. you messed up your argument here by assuming that being proud of your country is the equivalent of be a Nazi...nice try, but it didn't work.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
reno it's more the national pride. you're not just proud of america, you're proud of yourselves. you don't just "believe" amerika is the greatest nation on earth, you know it. your government is going on a campaign of mass murder but there's just no way amerika could be wrong! amerika rules!
you think your government is better, your military is better, your people are better, you are the best people on the planet. you are the final moral arbiters, you know what's best for all of us. it's been said that this war is not about amerikas interests, this is about world security.
and amerika knows best, right?
EDIT: Nationalism started WWII and right now it looks like it may start WWIII. You are facing opposition from all over the world, from smart people. and yet you persist. you don't even consider WHY all these other nations are opposed to the war.
because amerika knows best.
SECOND EDIT:
It's not just "fondness" as you claim. Despite my best attempts to the contrary, i am "fond" in a way not of my country but of my city. I go around and say to people that edmonton is the best city in the world.
but if edmonton declared they were going to war on calgary, and they had no rational basis, I WOULD NOT SUPPORT THEM.
it's your unquestioning loyalty to the flag that makes you similiar to nazis.
you think your government is better, your military is better, your people are better, you are the best people on the planet. you are the final moral arbiters, you know what's best for all of us. it's been said that this war is not about amerikas interests, this is about world security.
and amerika knows best, right?
EDIT: Nationalism started WWII and right now it looks like it may start WWIII. You are facing opposition from all over the world, from smart people. and yet you persist. you don't even consider WHY all these other nations are opposed to the war.
because amerika knows best.
SECOND EDIT:
It's not just "fondness" as you claim. Despite my best attempts to the contrary, i am "fond" in a way not of my country but of my city. I go around and say to people that edmonton is the best city in the world.
but if edmonton declared they were going to war on calgary, and they had no rational basis, I WOULD NOT SUPPORT THEM.
it's your unquestioning loyalty to the flag that makes you similiar to nazis.
Last edited by mosaik on 3/19/2003, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
so in other wars your claiming that the "mass murder" in Iraq is the equivalent to the holocost jews...is that what your arguing?
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
-
the android
- Posts: 2334
- Joined: 3/15/2002, 11:19 pm
- Location: South Shore MA
ok, i'm done making my breakfast ....mmmmm bacon and egg taquitos 
but anyway back to the arguement. Jews were killed in WWII because of ignorance, and as we all know ignorance spurs racism. The assumed that their race is superior, however here in the US that is not the case. Take a look at the front line, you see hispanics, asians, african americans, and anglos fighting together, there is no racism in this fight.
nationalism has been around forever, the assumption that it has been around since WWI is false. look back into your history books, and it will show you that two tribes fighting against one another is the modern day nationalism you call. look closely at those tribes, are they really different? no, they share the same lands, the baiscally hunt and gather their food almost the same way, but what makes them fight.....because one tribe is one tribe and another tribe is another....it's that simple.
but anyway back to the arguement. Jews were killed in WWII because of ignorance, and as we all know ignorance spurs racism. The assumed that their race is superior, however here in the US that is not the case. Take a look at the front line, you see hispanics, asians, african americans, and anglos fighting together, there is no racism in this fight.
nationalism has been around forever, the assumption that it has been around since WWI is false. look back into your history books, and it will show you that two tribes fighting against one another is the modern day nationalism you call. look closely at those tribes, are they really different? no, they share the same lands, the baiscally hunt and gather their food almost the same way, but what makes them fight.....because one tribe is one tribe and another tribe is another....it's that simple.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
i'm reposting part two of edits.
me wrote:It's not just "fondness" as you claim. Despite my best attempts to the contrary, i am "fond" in a way not of my country but of my city. I go around and say to people that edmonton is the best city in the world.
but if edmonton declared they were going to war on calgary, and they had no rational basis, I WOULD NOT SUPPORT THEM.
it's your unquestioning loyalty to the flag that makes you similiar to nazis.
hollow minds wrote:it's your unquestioning loyalty to the flag that makes you similiar to nazis.
no most people would follow their flag into war, look at those Iraqi kids. they are not exactly nazis. Nazis were ignorant of a different peoples. you cannot compare Nationalism and Nazism and say they are the same.
Whenever death may surprise us,
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
let it be welcome
if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear
and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.
Nobody's gonna miss me, no tears will fall, no ones gonna weap, when i hit that road.
my boots are broken my brain is sore, fer keepin' up with thier little world, i got a heavy load.
gonna leave 'em all just like before, i'm big city bound, your always 17 in your hometown
voting is coercive, irrational, immoral activity and it leads to things like this war.
the war is irrational. americans, by and large, appear to be irrational.
i'm giving up on "diplomacy". from now on i'm just going to be a smart ass. i'm not getting through and i'm sick of repeating myself. we can talk in circles forever, but it comes down to objective facts: i think, i am rational. i do not believe in coercion. i do not believe in "gray areas" or half-maybe-sortas or doubletalk. i do not believe in contradictions.
government is based on men not thinking, it is irrational. government by it's nature is coercive. government thrives on gray areas and double talk and contradictions.
we are clearly not going to the prom together.
the war is irrational. americans, by and large, appear to be irrational.
i'm giving up on "diplomacy". from now on i'm just going to be a smart ass. i'm not getting through and i'm sick of repeating myself. we can talk in circles forever, but it comes down to objective facts: i think, i am rational. i do not believe in coercion. i do not believe in "gray areas" or half-maybe-sortas or doubletalk. i do not believe in contradictions.
government is based on men not thinking, it is irrational. government by it's nature is coercive. government thrives on gray areas and double talk and contradictions.
we are clearly not going to the prom together.
Re: the nazi mentality
hollow minds wrote:now, don't they make you take the pledge of allegiance to the american flag in public schools down there? haven't they over the last decade or two driven it into your heads that america is not a country on it's own, it's a country of "you, the people?"
Well, actually, outside of humans, no, there is no America. If everyone on Earth died tomorrow, America would be gone. The concept of government is a strictly human one...without humans, no government.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
hollow minds wrote:voting is coercive, irrational, immoral activity and it leads to things like this war.
Yes, giving everyone equal say in the way their country is ran is just wrong. Let's support dictators, and fascism, and tyrants. Good plan!
the war is irrational. americans, by and large, appear to be irrational.
So are you. What's your point.
i'm giving up on "diplomacy". from now on i'm just going to be a smart ass. i'm not getting through and i'm sick of repeating myself. we can talk in circles forever, but it comes down to objective facts: i think, i am rational. i do not believe in coercion. i do not believe in "gray areas" or half-maybe-sortas or doubletalk. i do not believe in contradictions.
You are not rational, and you ignore objective facts in favor of ones that suit your point. Life is a lot of grey, and a lot of contradictions, because humans aren't perfect. Deal with it.
PS: Remove the word 'smart' from the above paragraph and you're right on the money.
You can't go around building a better world for people. Only people can build a better world for people. Otherwise it's just a cage.
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die
--Terry Pratchett
When it's cold I'd like to die