State of the Union Address

[mosaik]

why am i concerned?

these "trials" have been conducted in secrecy. the evidence is always vague. eye witness accounts are fleeting and often seem doctored.

in a murder case, certain protocols have to be followed. these days, anyone can be labeled a terrorist.

and people like you would like it if those 'terrorists' were locked up quickly and quietly.

deny it all you want, there is definatley controversy surrounding what Richard Reid was actually doing up there in the air. if he were entitled to a fair trial, that same controversy may serve as this little legal term called reasonable doubt.

but he's not getting a fair trial, is he?

i don't blindly follow anything, corey. i am not a fucking libera/democrat just out to spite bush.

but anytime there is even a hint that civil liberties have been violated by the all-powerful state, i feel compelled to look further then the propaganda reported by cnn.

the worst part is, you only believe these propaganda machines. if an outside source starts digging for the truth and comes up with something different, you disregard their findings saying the source has no credibility.

people don't read GNN. that doesn't make GNN liars. popularity does not dictate quality.

i'm not saying my sources are ironclad either. unfortunately in this day and age you have to actually be there to know what really went down. but i believe GNN over CNN any day of the week.

the nazis believed their county was the greatest in the world. they believed they were the greatest race and hitler the greatest leader.

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who amerikans rate as the world's top nation. and maybe the don't all like bush, but the figure of the president has got to be the greatest leader in the world, right?

the trouble with your nation these days is that you all believe that you act with the highest moral authority in everything you do. that sort of belief is dangerous to freedom.

[superboots]

I wish I knew enough about my fabulous country so that I could contribute to this conversation.

The university does a good job of sheltering us.

[starvingeyes]

actually there is no such statement, and the second article is at the indictment hearing, less then a month after the actual incident.

after that, there is no mention of the type of explosive used in any major press publication.

[mosaik]

point blank, let's take a little survey

everybody with an opinion please make it heard

is Richard Reid a terrorist? Was he trying to blow up his shoes? Is he linked to Osama Bin Ladens terrorist organization?

Is Saddam Hussein a terrorist? Is he harboring weapons of mass destruction? Should he be disarmed?

[mosaik]

one more thing:

when was the last time the amerikan media ever published a story about the government lying, being wrong, or falsely charging a man with terrorism or other such charges? has the amerikan media ever done an investigation into government allegations or do they just believe what the DOD tells them (with respect to Saddam)?

how can you believe the news when they don't even bother to investigate?

[Corey]

"C4, in nature"

This is the statement immediately after the event, mind you.

Well guess what. TATP IS C4, in nature.

Do your research here:

http://www.interfire.org/res_file/atflabex.htm

[Venom]

Chris you never enlightened me on how the Palestinians are fighting for their lives by blowing themselves up to kill innocent civilians. What they are doing are terrorist attacks and they are doing it ONLY because they hate the Jews. They want them all to die. But yet you simpathize with them? You agree with their cause?? This is also the reason terrorists target the United States and other countries that support Israel. There is no disputing this.

[mosaik]

there is no disupting this

oh really?

show me the hard, undeniable proof. i want you to prove you know exactly what is in the heads of the palestinians. i want you to prove that israel & amerika are acting with the highest imaginable moral authority.

please make it irrefutable.

[Venom]

Read or listen to ANY account from a terrorist (palestinian or not) on what they are fighting for. They want the Jews out and they hate the United States because they provide support for an Israeli state both militarily and politically.

[mosaik]

i see. your whole point is based on hearsay.

hardly irrefutable evidence.

the fact that you refuse to open yourself to the prospect that you are wrong proves my earlier point about the blind self-righteousness of amerikans.

[Venom]

Its not heresay. Did you hear what Richard Reid just said days ago. Or have you heard any of the tapes of OBL calling for attacks against the "Zionist" state of America?? In case you didn't know a Zionist is someone who supports an Israeli state.

[Bandalero]

one more thing:

when was the last time the amerikan media ever published a story about the government lying, being wrong, or falsely charging a man with terrorism or other such charges? has the amerikan media ever done an investigation into government allegations or do they just believe what the DOD tells them (with respect to Saddam)?

how can you believe the news when they don't even bother to investigate?

raza unida political party. they set up ramsey muniz so that it looked like he was trafficing drugs. because he got 200,000 votes for governor, and denied the democratic party the majority in texas, something that had never been done before then. When Ramsey Muñiz was arrested in 1976 and again in 1994, it was not for breaking any laws. It was for his role in the struggle. It was because Raza Unida was holding national conventions that passed resolutions condemning the U.S. war in Vietnam, demanding community control of the police and an end to police brutality. The federal government had systematically set out to break the movements of oppressed nationalities for self-determination like the raza unida.

there's an example.

[starvingeyes]

venom

the israeli government is illegally occupying large portions of palenstinian land and committing horrible war crimes against the palestinian people.

homes are bulldozed, children and women are shot, schools and hospitals are bombed.

i can have a huge amount of information about this ready on demand. ask and ye shall recieve.

[Venom]

I'm sure some of that happened, but it has come as result of REPEATED attacks on innocent Israeli people. People can only be pushed so far before they have to strike back. The Israeli government showed a lot of restraint before the instilled the curfews, etc. People were only shot disobeying the curfew that they brought on themselves. They knew they shouldn't be on the streets at those times.

[mosaik]

when did it become israels right to incur a curfew over the palestinians?

remember that palestine resisted in a non-violent manner for thirty years, all the while their people were being killed.

israel is illegally occupying palestine, and they are enforcing their will by violence, not diplomacy.

unlike you, i can admit this issue is complicated. right now i don't seek to change your mind. all i want from you is an admission that there are in fact two sides to this story.

[Venom]

I agree with you. I just take the stance that for the most part the Palestinians bring it all on themselves. That whole area could be Israel if the Jews wanted it to be. In 1968 they took ALL that land after the palestinians tried to eradicate the Jews from the area. They launched a "Holy War" with other area nations with the sole purpose of taking all the land and removing the Jews. They lost!! The Jews gave them land back, but the palestinians (the fanatical ones anyway) aren't happy unless the Jews are gone. I will say that many palestinians just want peace and their own state but as long as they have fanatical leaders and let extremists run the place it won't happen. I never said Israel = good, palestine = evil. I agree there are two sides (actually three). The extremists need to be removed to reach any kind of peace deal.

[Venom]

I'm glad to see chris at least came to the realization he didn't know what he was talking about. I still love this quote:

[/quote]2. even if there was a terrorist organization bent on destroying the states, saddam hussein wouldn't sell them weapons. why? because these groups are all highly religious. saddam is an atheist socialist. he hates religion, and in fact, outlaws it, ALL OF IT. saddam hussein is not a muslim. not all of "'dem pakis" are, you know.

LOL hes been a Shite muslim since birth.
you crack me up man! "Saddams not a muslim" he says "He hates all religion" he says

[Venom]

2. even if there was a terrorist organization bent on destroying the states, saddam hussein wouldn't sell them weapons. why? because these groups are all highly religious. saddam is an atheist socialist. he hates religion, and in fact, outlaws it, ALL OF IT. saddam hussein is not a muslim. not all of "'dem pakis" are, you know.

thats the quote.....screwed up above

[starvingeyes]

ok, i admit i fucked up once. always question the source, i suppose.

but since i've been wrong about 1 time in this discussion, and you've been wrong, or at the very least unable to answer or account for things, about 50 times, i'd be careful about being so fucking cocky.

don't run your mouth with me, skippy. you don't know shit.

[Sufjan Stevens]

Ahhh the thread that never dies. I love reading people's political views. It's rather fun.