ClumsyMonkey.net

If you'd like me to point out all the reasons why meat is unhealthy for you I'd be glad to do that .. there is no lie there .. any medical doctor will be able to tell you why meat is unhealthy for you as well. As always though you don't take anything seriously so it's really not worth my time.

For anyone else .. enjoy:

Both the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the American Dietetic Association have endorsed vegetarian diets. Studies have shown that vegetarians have stronger immune systems than meat-eaters and that meat-eaters are almost twice as likely to die of heart disease, 60 percent more likely to die of cancer, and 30 percent more likely to die of other diseases. Consumption of meat and dairy products has been conclusively linked with diabetes, arthritis, osteoporosis, clogged arteries, obesity, asthma, and impotence.

Kinda funny that the dairy industry pushes milk on you all the time though studies have linked too much milk to actually causing osteoporosis, which they're so quick to tell you milk prevents

Cholesterol (found only in animal products) and animal fat clog arteries, leading to heart attacks and strokes. The rate of many cancers—including colon, breast, cervical, uterine, ovarian, prostate, and lung—is highest in regions where meat consumption is high and lowest where meat-eating is uncommon. A study of more than 25,000 people found that vegetarians have a much lower risk of getting diabetes than meat-eaters. A South African study found not a single case of rheumatoid arthritis in a community of 800 people who ate no meat or dairy products.

From the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine: http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/vege ... foods.html

Some studies by doctors promoting a vegetarian diet if you still don't think meat is unhealthy.

You know, no one comes on here shoving meat propaghanda down your throat, so why do you constantly push us and tell us eating meat is bad? It's our choice to eat it and drink milk and what not, so just stop. You've a vegan, good for you, we're all proud you don't eat anything that isn't covered in dirt, congratulations. I'm going to go eat some meat now, because it's my choice.

Alan, the point Joey is making is that it is just that: your choice. She's just trying to refute the concept that meat is neccessary for human survival.

Joey - what about athletes, who eat a variety of meats in order to stay strong and push their bodies to peak performance. Is there a vegan option for them as well? and do you know of anybody who is on that diet and successful at a professional level?

just asking questions.

Actually Alan I'm not pushing the meat free lifestyle on anyone .. Lando was disputing the fact that meat was unhealthy for you .. so I showed why that's not true. I'm not pushing my beliefs on anyone, simply showing why I personally feel the way I do. If others don't agree with me that's fine. I don't look down on people who eat meat because it's something I don't approve of. I've already said earlier it's a personal choice and no I'm not going to stop. If this is making you uncomfortable you don't have to read this thread or post here. Considering I used to eat meat I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone, because of certain things I saw I stopped eating meat for my own reasons .. does everyone have to agree with me and my choices, no .. nor do I expect that to happen.

Doug, I'm honestly not too sure about professional athletes and how a vegetarian lifestyle would affect them. Good question though .. I'll look into that. I know of heaps of musicians and actors that are vegan

Sorry, I jumped into this conversation late and it's not even on the book anymore, but rather meat being bad.

I did some research and found this on athletes and vegetarianism:

http://www.veg.ca/newsletr/janfeb97/proathletes.html (old article but sorta funny)
http://www.veg.ca/newsletr/janfeb97/athlete.html (Dr. Spock knows all )
http://www.colba.net/~ajstrong/ath_veg.htm

I can dig deeper if you want

Oh and Alan, the book talks about the meat industry and why it's so bad. So the topic of vegetarianism has everything to do with the book. Since when does staying on topic matter anyway? It's not like that happens with any other thread

doug wrote:do you know of anybody who is on that diet and successful at a professional level?

I didn't look this up so I have no idea how "successful" these people are but there's a list of people past and present:

*Hank Aaron (home run champion in major league baseball)
* B J Armstrong (US Basketball star)
* Al Beckles (body builder)
* Sorya Bonali (ice skater)
* Les Brown (veteran runner)
* Peter Burwash (tennis)
* Andreas Cahling (body builder)
* Chris Campbell (1980 world champion wrestler)
* Joanna Conway (ice skater)
* Sylvia Cranston (triathlete)
* Sally Eastall (Marathon runner - UK)
* Di Edwards (runner, Olympic semi-finalist)
* Katie Fitzgibbon (marathon runner)
* Louis Freitas (body builder)
* Carol Gould (marathon runner)
* Estelle Gray (cyclist) Source
* Ruth Heidrich (3-time Ironman finisher, marathoner)
* Sally Hibberd (British Women's Mountain Bike Champion)
* Sharon Hounsell (Miss Wales Bodybuilding Champion)
* Desmond Howard (formerly w/Washington Redskins, now w/Jacksonville Jaguars)
* David Johnson (BAA coach)
* Kathy Johnson (Olympic Gymnast)
* Alan Jones (British ski jumper)
* Billie Jean King (tennis champion)
* Killer Kowalski (wrestler)
* Jack LaLanne (Fitness guru) (vegan)
* Donnie LaLonde (Former Light Heavyweight Champion of the World. (Lost title to Sugar Ray Leonard))
* Tony LaRussa (Manager of St. Louis Cardinals - US team)
* Silken Laumann (Olympic rower)
* Judy Leden (British, European & World Hang Gliding champion)
* Marv Levey (Buffalo Bills Coach)
* Jack Maitland (triathlete and fell runner)
* Cheryl Marek (cyclist)
* Leslie Marx (fencer; 1996 woman's epee national champion)
* Kirsty McDermott (runner)
* Lindford McFarquar (body builder)
* Robert Millar (cyclist
* Robert Parish (Center - Warriors, Celtics, Hornets, Bulls)
* Anthony Peeler (NBA Grizzlies basketball player)
* Lucy Stephens (triathlete - vegan)
* Andrew Reynolds - pro skateboarder

K, I'm too tired .. for more go here: http://www.livejournal.com/community/ve ... 75241.html
I asked the question in my vegetarian LJ community and they came up with a shit load of people

http://www.famousveggie.com/peoplenew.cfm

Just because this is so cool .. a list of all the famous people who are vegetarian .. who knew!

Carl Lewis - meat eater, buttloads of gold medals
Joe Deloach - meat eater, the only man to have ever beat carl lewis legally
Daryll Green - meat eater, former fastest man in the NFL. guy was 125 years old and still played well for the Redskins.


yeah...what you got?

I suppose people eat meat because (generally speaking), they enjoy the taste of meat, and enjoy eating it. Whether healthy or not it doesn't matter (to most people). People still eat candy, which is not particularly good for you, but they eat it because they enjoy the taste.

meat is good for you guys, just not a porterhouse steak everyday.

so meat has fat, your body needs fat. you need cholesterol, you need germs, and other stuff you normally think you don't need. nothing wrong with meat at all.

if that was true, every vegan i know would be dead.

I've already pointed out the negative affects of meat, if you choose to ignore that, that's your choice .. I for one am not a vegetarian because of the health reasons, because I don't like the taste etc etc .. I choose to be a vegetarian because I have morals that don't agree with the cruelty, abuse and torture of slaughterhouses .. I'm not here to debate whether or not meat is good for you or not .. because statistically speaking, it's not, plain and simple.

There's a reason it says vegetarians live 7 years longer and vegans live 15 years longer then the average meat eater. It doesn't take a genius to understand that. So no offense Reno, before you go around saying "meat is good for you" you should really research that .. from a medical stand point, that's just not true.

Bandalero wrote:Carl Lewis - meat eater, buttloads of gold medals
Joe Deloach - meat eater, the only man to have ever beat carl lewis legally
Daryll Green - meat eater, former fastest man in the NFL. guy was 125 years old and still played well for the Redskins.


yeah...what you got?

Actually, if you had bothered to read my post and check out the link of all the people I provided you would have noticed that CARL LEWIS IS A VEGETARIAN

Joey wrote:Interesting .. I typed Omega 3 into my search engine and it brought up listings of all these vitamin stores where you can buy capsules

Silly Joey... where do you think the stuff in the capsules COMES from?? I take omega 3 capsules myself because I detest the taste of seafood. They are just encapsulated SALMON OIL

Actually according to some of the sites I looked at you can get supplements that don't contain any salmon oil ... so yeah. Always an alternative. Not that it matters since these aren't necessary to be healthy.

According to the Total Vegan Nutrition website, omega 3 can be obtained through canola oil, flaxseeds, soybean oil, and english walnuts. I use canola oil all the time in cooking so I guess I'm getting my omega 3 without having to resort to eating salmon Or if I was at all concerned with this I could always take the vegan supplement called microalgae, which is where fish get their long chain omega 3s.

i am not arguing against a vegan diet. i am arguing against the concept of eating meat being immoral. whether or not other animals have the thought process to not eat meat is irrelevant to my point, same goes with them requiring meat to live.

the fact is, animals eat other animals. this is simple, undeniable fact. it's a part of nature. humans are animals. we are biologically equipped with the tools to eat meat. our bodies were designed to be omnivorous. as a species, we are biologically the single best hunters in the world. does that not speak to you in some way?

you may choose not to eat meat. that is your choice. you may do so for a number of reasons, including the fact that you don't think it's nice to eat animals who are treated as they are in slaughterhouses.

but, i must stress that i do not agree with the concept of meat eating being <i>wrong</i>, because it's not. it's <i>natural</i>

That's a matter of opinion I'm afraid since I consider eating meat unnatural ... it's silly to keep debating this. This is a personal choice and a personal decision. I think it's not only unnatural, I think it's wrong .. for ME. You can tell me it's right all you want, I'll disagree. It's already been stated twice a human's body is more similiar to a herbivores, rather than a carnivores. There is no reason anyone can give me as to why it's neccessary to eat meat .. other than it's good or it's natural .. I don't see it as being natural. I find nothing natural with eating a dead carcass that was once alive and free. Everyone has a different opinion of what's "right" and what's "wrong" ...

I have no problem with people being vegitarians, in fact I support it. I would never be able to do it - but good for you!

But the athlete question was raised and I looked up a few people like wreslers, hockey players, football players and that sort of thing and in interviews and shit none of them admitted to being a vegitarian. In fact, some of them said that they tried it but their body was too fatigued and there wasn't enough iron in their system to keep doing what they were doing, and they were brusing easily. So athletes in that sort of sense do need nutrition that is in meat products. But what I am talking about are guys in very contact sports. This isnt swimming or biking. This this bashing people around. I guess it dependes what you are into and if you are willing to change your diet for your lifestyle.