ClumsyMonkey.net

The bomb was in retaliation to what they did to us. Do you agree with the Japanese attacking a crew that was essentially doing nothing at all?

Like I said, 15,000 innocent lives ended that day for no reason at all, and you play that off as nothing. But the second America retaliated to the attack, we're the fucking devil. Jesus, you people seriously need to stop with your anti-American prophecies on the board.

You cannot say that if, let's say, North Korea dropped a few bombs on Vancouver that you would mourn for a day then move on. No, you'd expect to retaliate to their attack and you'd expect, get this, America to help. Get over yourself, if you had a relatively important role in world politics, I am sure other countries worldwide would want to attack your ass too. But seeing that Canada is essentially useless land for growing wheat, and the fact that you only care about saving your own ass than the lives of other innocent people, no one gives a shit about you.

God, you Canadians and your anti-American views pissed me off so much you're making me sound like I am one of those redneck God Bless America assholes.

And about the Russia part, you're right. I had that nagging doubt in the back of my head that it was Russia that took out the Germans, but then I assumed I was thinking of Napolean and the French even though I was right in the first place. My bad on the WWII part.

fifth seasoned wrote:Canada didn't have a larger part then America in WWII but it was hardly the americas who won the war. That was the RUSSIANS. It was the Russians who stopped the Nazi advance, the Russians who decimated the German force and started their retreat and the Russians who eventually paved the way to victory in Europe. If Stalin had been taken more iniative instead of just trying to cover his ass, it would have been USSR forces that took Berlin.

This is the same russian army that got it's ass handed to them by Japan. Russia was suppose to be this superforce that no one could mess with but then little old Japan crossed a little bit of water and took a few of their ports. (causing shit to happen all over the world) Russia wasn't a consistent fighting machine back in this time. they obviously needed help, and winter supplied that.

Ok, for starters, the number of men women and children that perished in the 'suprise attack' was: 2,388.

Did I ever trivialize that loss? No.

But it is irrational to suggest that a fair retaliation to killing military personel (only 48 civilians died) is dropping an ATOMIC BOMB on a CIVILLIAN CITY.

Were the Japanese wrong to attack pearl harbor? definately. were the americans justified to seek justice? yes. but is that what they did?

hell no. what they did was murder a bunch of japanese kids, who last i checked were not flying any of the planes that bombed Pear Harbor.

two wrongs do not make a right. if the Japan gov't and the American gov't make a decision to go to war, thier citizens are not automatically guilty of the atrocity that the militaries commit under direction of the governments.

i'm not neccessarily anti-american, i'm just opposed to the irrational way that your american minds work. i like how you keep saying "if it was YOU in OUR shoes...." as if that justifies what the united states has done.

fact: the circumstances don't change my views. my principles are based on logic, not situations.

if the N. Koreans bombed Vancouver, i would not call indiscriminantly for the head of every N. Korean. that's what you do. "arabs" blow up the twin towers and now every arab on God's green earth must be put to death. Japanese blow up Pearl Harbor and you drop an ATOMIC BOMB on their cities.

you hate canadians bashing america? well, i hate racism/nationalism/ethno-centrism. that's what gets me all worked up and i see it coming from the americans on this message board every day.

Reno - yes, the Russians needed winter. Point is, they got winter, and Stalingrad was a huge victory either way.

and their ports were a huge failure, and it is because of this failure that the world went into war.

OK, I planned on saying something to justify my point, but I'll stop now. There's no point in trying to defend what America is doing. Death is death. No matter what, it's wrong. If some one unjustly murders some one, be it American, Canadian, Iraqi, North Korean, or whatever, it's still wrong. I'm sorry it got this far.

By the way, I don't call for the death of every "Arab", just to let ya know.

fifth seasoned wrote:i'm not neccessarily anti-american, i'm just opposed to the irrational way that your american minds work. i like how you keep saying "if it was YOU in OUR shoes...." as if that justifies what the united states has done.

if the N. Koreans bombed Vancouver, i would not call indiscriminantly for the head of every N. Korean. that's what you do. "arabs" blow up the twin towers and now every arab on God's green earth must be put to death. Japanese blow up Pearl Harbor and you drop an ATOMIC BOMB on their cities.

you hate canadians bashing america? well, i hate racism/nationalism/ethno-centrism. that's what gets me all worked up and i see it coming from the americans on this message board every day.

we've been over this before, there are canadian irrational minds too, and there are arab irrational minds also. in fact nobody on this planet thinks rationally, and if you think you do, refer back to the checklist that i posted somewhere here and see if you do everything on that list before you make a coment. i promise you that you don't. i love the way you call americans thought process irrational yet YOU also hate racism/nationalism/ethno-centrism. i think it's moronic on your part to assume everyone in america to be irrational.

so who is calling for every arab head on GODS green planet? i sure haven't and neither has alan. and who is this god you speak of? i thought you didn't believe? it must just be an expression.

and no doug, the bombs were dropped on Japan so that the war could end, not because the americans hated every fucking japanese person on the planet, so please get your shit stright and/or refer to the checklist. this is rational thinking to you? the accusation that we bombed Japan because we hated Japanese? that we sent economist there to build the economy of japan because we hated Japanese? the fact that we left in 6 months because we hated the Japanese?

ok, my broad and sweeping generalizations were patently false, totally baseless and worthless to the conversation.

i am taking them back.

but you guys have to admit, that your government has a habit of repaying their casualties ten fold. for every one american killed ten of the killers nationality must die sort of seems to be the trend.

Yes, the Soviet Union played a huge role in defeating Germany, but not all of it. Germany's problem was it decided to take on the US and the USSR at the same time. Big problem. Germany could've beaten just the USSR. Heck, Germany probably could have beaten just the US, but not US + USSR. But even with Germany down, there was still a huge evil left, Japan. I'm not going to get into the details, but some of the atrocities that empire performed on China likened them to the Nazis. USSR may have beat Germany, but the US beat Japan. US + USSR ended the war.

the surprise attack was not a surprise at all. it is a widely known FACT that the americans had foreknowledge of the attack on pearl harbour. your administration allowed it to go through so they could support from the public to enter a war.

i can prove this.

and i agree chris. we did know.

but the attack on russia, i wonder if we knew about that one. that would have been something, seeing how we were the merchants of WWI for the longest time. I wonder if we allowed WWII to happen so that we could do the same again.

Corey wrote:This story reminds me of the movie "Rules of Engagement". Excellent movie, I recommend it.

Exactly!

fifth seasoned wrote:but you guys have to admit, that your government has a habit of repaying their casualties ten fold. for every one american killed ten of the killers nationality must die sort of seems to be the trend.

no one ever mentions the foriegn legion. did you know that during a confrontation with civilians shooting at troops in Lebonon (i think it was lebonon), marines were hiding behind cars, and ducking bullets. meanwhile, the forign legion was walking around, not worried about getting fired at. do you know why? because these civilians shot and killed one of them. and in retaliation they went in and killed everyone on the block, men women and children. that's alot more then ten fold, and to be perfectly honest, that's a retardent to the civilian uprising. it obviously works, seeing how no one really fired at them but they fired at US troops. there's no mention of this anywhere. but when it's disputed that marines shot into a crowd that may/may not have fired at them it's a big deal. why? no one really talks about what other countries do, we all have our focus on the US. we forget that ALLEGED french nazis were killed after world war II by their government.

we forget that during the American civil war, a general pardon was granted to all southern soilders (technically another country) when the war was done. General Lee was never formally punished, and i can promise you that Lincon's assasination was because he wanted no real punishment for the south. Most people in the north thought he was too soft on Traitors (the south). name me another country on this earth that has ever put down a revolution and has been so kind to their enemy, you won't find one. Yeah, this is an example of the US essentially fighting itself, but this is still an example of our government showing leaniancy to it's enemy. the civil war was fought not because of slavery, not because it was industrial north against the agricultural south, but it was a war fought between Federal Government Vs. State Government, and Federal won. The fed's wanted to put a law into play, and the states didn't like it and they fought this war and lost. the law got put into effect, the pardon was granted, and the country became one again.

reno, you're awesome.

You're right though. The US gets the most crap for everything it does because all eyes are on us.

you only have to commit one murder to be an evil man.

the wrongs of others do not justify the blood on americas hands.

starving eyes wrote:the surprise attack was not a surprise at all. it is a widely known FACT that the americans had foreknowledge of the attack on pearl harbour. your administration allowed it to go through so they could support from the public to enter a war.

i can prove this.

Didn't FDR want into the war?

I think I remember my old teacher saying that he wanted in but, he couldn't get approval or something like that.

That's right. FDR wanted into the war well before the US eventually did get involved. He couldn't persuade the US population to support it, however. Not until Pearl Harbor.

FDR set it up, then. obviously.

He didn't set it up. He knew about the attack, he just chose not to evacuate Pearl Harbor so he could have a reason to enter the war. That's very different than organizing an attack on the country, even though it's still wrong.

Didn't FDR move some ships out of the harbour before the attack?