Theocracy, etc.

[Mechanical Thought]

[starseed_10]

to bad i'm canadian too.. (well not really, i love canada) but i just insulted myself i guess

[starseed_10]

no you dont.

[Bandalero]

so...comandments.......yeah!

anyway, it's a religious statue, keep your religion to yourself, no one wants to know or even cares what it is you belive. if you so choose to decide to want to decorate your place of work with religious stuff, ok fine, but keep it to yourself, don't show boat it all over the damn place.

i probably spelt a few things wrong...fuck it i'm a little tipsy.

[I AM ME]

i've already explained why i posted 2 articles it wasn't a big planned thing, but i'm not going to drop down to the level of crude insults and cursing. Your not listening to anything i say very well either so none of this is going anywhere. I'm at least a few years younger then you and i've handled this with more maturity. So lets drop it, so you can go back to teasing Nikki or Joey or something like that. End of Story

I agree that a statue isn't a huge deal but as One Eye said it's more the message that's being sent, it's hard to say what should be done though because we also can't go arund changing every single thing in our lives. Either way though Religon and State should stay completly diffrent, Religon is a private matter and should stay private

[robcore]

By "we," i meant canada and the united states.

[Sufjan Stevens]

I don't tease Nikki or Joey buddy. So let's stop making things up. That is all.

And about the thread. Our country has people move over here because they wanted religious freedom. Our country was founded on religious purposes. Therefore, why should religious people be ashamed of what they are? Why can't people put statues up?

You people make this out to be like there will be religious persecution going on if people freely display their religion, which is not the case. In the matter of the courthouse having a statue, it doesn't mean people don't have a fair trial. They're going on trial with a group of their peers, and odds are, if you've murdered someone, then you're going to jail. The religious preference of the judge does not matter.

The ten commandments are nothing more than morals that most people share. If someone just listed them out and said they were not the ten commandments, and take the word God out of there and replaced it with something like judge or parent, no one would give a fuck, because they're all logical morals. But no one would like to look at the situation rationally, everyone here would rather just say everyone's being persecuted by a statue and that it should be removed.

[happening fish]

Alan, the point is that the law is a nonpartisan institution, and a display of affiliation with a specific denomination is merely inappropriate.

[Sufjan Stevens]

I honestly can't stand the people on here that just won't let people live how they want to. Face it, it's none of our business to decide what may or may not stay at a courthouse. That's the fact.

[One-Eye]

Actually, the ten commandments are mostly pretty silly.

Here is my problem with the ten commandments- why exactly are there 10?

You simply do not need ten. The list of ten commandments was artificially and deliberately inflated to get it up to ten. Here's what happened:

About 5,000 years ago a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to try to figure out how to control people and keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so they announced that God had given them some commandments, up on a mountain, when no one was around.

Well let me ask you this- when they were making this shit up, why did they pick 10? Why not 9 or 11? I'll tell you why- because 10 sound official. Ten sounds important! Ten is the basis for the decimal system, it's a decade, it's a psychologically satisfying number (the top ten, the ten most wanted, the ten best dressed). So having ten commandments was really a marketing decision! It is clearly a bullshit list. It's a political document artificially inflated to sell better. I will now show you how you can reduce the number of commandments and come up with a list that's a little more workable and logical. I am going to use the Roman Catholic version because those were the ones I was taught as a little boy.

Let's start with the first three:

I AM THE LORD THY GOD THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME
THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN
THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH

Right off the bat the first three are pure bullshit. Sabbath day? Lord's name? strange gods? Spooky language! Designed to scare and control primitive people. In no way does superstitious nonsense like this apply to the lives of intelligent civilized humans in the 21st century. So now we're down to 7. Next:

HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER

Obedience, respect for authority. Just another name for controlling people. The truth is that obedience and respect shouldn't be automatic. They should be earned and based on the parent's performance. Some parents deserve respect, but most of them don't, period. You're down to six.

Now in the interest of logic, something religion is very uncomfortable with, we're going to jump around the list a little bit.

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL
THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS

Stealing and lying. Well actually, these two both prohibit the same kind of behavior- dishonesty. So you don't really need two you combine them and call the commandment "thou shalt not be dishonest". And suddenly you're down to 5.
And as long as we're combining I have two others that belong together:

THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE

Once again, these two prohibit the same type of behavior. In this case it is marital infidelity. The difference is- coveting takes place in the mind. But I don't think you should outlaw fantasizing about someone else's wife because what is a guy gonna think about when he's waxing his carrot? But, marital infidelity is a good idea so we're gonna keep this one and call it "thou shalt not be unfaithful". And suddenly we're down to four.

But when you think about it, honesty and infidelity are really part of the same overall value so, in truth, you could combine the two honesty commandments with the two fidelity commandments and give them simpler language, positive language instead of negative language and call the whole thing "thou shalt always be honest and faithful" and we're down to 3.

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S GOODS

This one is just plain fuckin' stupid. Coveting your neighbor's goods is what keeps the economy going! Your neighbor gets a vibrator that plays "o come o ye faithful", and you want one too! Coveting creates jobs, so leave it alone. You throw out coveting and you're down to 2 now- the big honesty and fidelity commandment and the one we haven't talked about yet:

THOU SHALT NOT KILL

Murder. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed. So, with all of this in mind, I give you my revised list of the two commandments:

Thou shalt always be honest and faithful to the provider of thy nookie.

&

Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man than you.

Two is all you need; Moses could have carried them down the hill in his fuckin' pocket. I wouldn't mind those folks in Alabama posting them on the courthouse wall, as long as they provided one additional commandment:

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

And as for Alan's comment, well then, I suppose anything our government does isn't any of our business. We should just sit back and let 'em do what they want, eh?

[Sufjan Stevens]

Wow, if you knew anything about me, you would know what my views on government are.

[One-Eye]

So you were being facetious?

[Sufjan Stevens]

Honestly, all I am trying to say is that there's no real reason to remove the 10 commandments from anywhere. It doesn't stand for oppression. It isn't racist. It isn't sexist. It's just morals that you think are disproven by a witty rant by George Carlin, which they really aren't.

Face it, if you ignore the first three, what is so offensive about them? I mean, it makes sense to have the not killing someone thing there, does it not? Face it, everyone is too retentive about society.

There's a house about 5 miles from me that has a 20 foot Buddhist statue in their front yard. It's a house on a major road. Now I am fairly sure that neighborhood has varying religious beliefs, but no one gets upset about it, and lets the people give their statue fresh fruit every Sunday. No one has made them take it down. It stays up there because some people are UNDERSTANDING and let people believe what they want, even if it may be an eyesore to some. You people here really need to learn how to let things go.

[One-Eye]

I completely agree that we should let people believe what they want, however, a Buddha statue in someone's <i>private</i> property is very different than a religious monument in a <i>state institution</i>. What's worse is the judge's attitude - he deliberately makes a big deal out of it - basically asking for the supreme court to get involved. Then, when they do, he screams religious persecution. It's ridiculous. Our courts need to be impartial to people of all faiths. They need to be completely nonpartisan - which is why Justice is traditionally portrayed as blind. Sure, the judicial system isn't perfect. But when it blatantly shows an affiliation with one religion over another, that is a direct violation of the Bill of Rights. It is illegal and it is harmful.

Now, in the interest of following your "you people need to learn how to let things go" admonition, that's all I'm saying about it.

[Sufjan Stevens]

Alright, I am starting to agree with you all. My friend and I had a conversation about this. I guess it just makes more sense when you have a face discussing it with you. I can see where you're coming from on this. Removing the statue shouldn't be a big deal, but I still stick to my belief that it was harming no one, so it should stay, but I understand your side on saying it should be removed.

[doug]

Aerin were you in on the smoking debate at all?

just curious.

[One-Eye]

No, at the time I wasn't reading the CM avidly. Although for the record, I think businesses should be allowed to decide for themselves their policy on smoking.

[Corey]

I have a good idea. The US should tear down every single Muslim statue/marking/livelyhood in Iraq because who cares about their damn culture. Religion is EVIL!! They shouldn't mind though, because they'll know its in the best interest of people who don't even live there.

[One-Eye]

[Sufjan Stevens]

Psst, I think he's making fun of you people.