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Posted: 4/10/2003, 10:01 am
by Bandalero
blue & copper wrote:of course it is. i hate governments. all of them. i won't lie to you, the level of ignorance and sheep like quality of the greater populous of earth does eat at me.
in fact it keeps me up at night some times.
if you want to go on with your rose coloured glasses, thinking that every man woman & child in iraq is sooooo happy that this war was fought, well, fine. that only further proves my point about americans, and how happy they are to only believe the one side of the story that they like the best.
i am not denying that some iraqi's really believe that they are "free" now and that you're a good country and you've saved their ass. i'm just asking you to try to see the other side of the story.
the fact that you want to go back in time and end up clothless bafoons is troubling to me man. the fact is i do acknowlege that there are people that don't want this and that some view us as occupiers. but the truth is that this is done so that the majority of these people would benifit from it. you cannot strive to make everyone happy, you can only help those who want to be helped. and the fact that were doing this even helps those who don't agree with this justifies it too. i do acknowlege that people will die, that things at times look a little extreme but the end result will be far greater then the present or past situation. that's what governments do, that's why we need them, without them it's like fuck everyone else i'm helping myself and you all can kiss my ass.
nice picture, andyeah, it was obvious that only a hand full of Iraqi people were there to tear this mother down.....the rest were looting, rioting, and most are still scared that they might feel sadamn's rath.
and what's up with the marine that put the flagon the statues face. he ought to know damn well that the stars go in the upper left hand corner, not the bottom right.....dammit son get it right!
Posted: 4/10/2003, 10:23 am
by thirdhour
do you really think that the US is going to have no influence whatsoever in deciding the governement of Iraq? sure, they might have an election, but who do you think the rulers (america) are going to let run? how convienenant that the states has the power to install their power all over the world. but there is no americanization happening here, of course not
Posted: 4/10/2003, 12:28 pm
by Bandalero
well, if they hold an election the UN sends a coalition that oversees it. the majority of this coalition is from Japan. so where exactly is the US influence? it's a UN thing to make sure elections go well.
Posted: 4/10/2003, 1:21 pm
by thirdhour
i thought the UN was 'useless and irrelevent'
Posted: 4/10/2003, 1:43 pm
by trentm32
thirdhour wrote:do you really think that the US is going to have no influence whatsoever in deciding the governement of Iraq? sure, they might have an election, but who do you think the rulers (america) are going to let run? how convienenant that the states has the power to install their power all over the world. but there is no americanization happening here, of course not
I dont; know what you mean by "Americanization", but the U.S. and Britian are going to help the Iraqi people set up a lasting, free government, that will be ruled by their own people. geez, how hard is it to see that the Coalition is, by far, in the right on this war.
Posted: 4/10/2003, 2:05 pm
by Bandalero
thirdhour wrote:i thought the UN was 'useless and irrelevent'
i never said that. i might have said it looks bad on their part, but i never said it was useless. someone else might have said that, but it wasn't me. either way they have to get in for the sake of this country and for the sake of their own appearance. 49 countries supporting this war.
Posted: 4/10/2003, 2:08 pm
by starvingeyes
the coalition is an invading force. aggressive wars are never right. period.
Posted: 4/10/2003, 2:11 pm
by Bandalero
yes, we should have 1/2 assed wars, that makes perfect sense.
war is suppose to be agressive, that's the point.
Posted: 4/10/2003, 2:41 pm
by thirdhour
[quote=][/quote]
Washington intends to bypass the United Nations and try Iraqi leaders for alleged war crimes under U.S. law, State Department and Pentagon officials said yesterday, and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and his two sons could be among those prosecuted if they are taken alive.
War-crimes trials could be handled by special U.S. military commissions, military courts, martial or civilian federal criminal courts, said W. Hays Parks, a senior Pentagon legal adviser.
Punishment could include the death penalty, said Pierre-Richard Prosper, the U.S. ambassador for war crimes. The duo spoke at a Pentagon press briefing.
The plan to prosecute Iraqi leaders under U.S. law ignores recent precedent and the advice of many international legal scholars.
David Scheffer, who was ambassador for war crimes in the previous U.S. administration, has argued for a special UN tribunal to try Iraqis for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
The UN Security Council created such tribunals to deal with war crimes in the former Yugoslavia and genocide in Rwanda.
Mr. Scheffer, Richard Dicker of Human Rights Watch and other experts say an international tribunal is needed to give the proceedings credibility
[/quote]
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/sto ... war+crimes
The US doesn't seem to be following UN rules too much to me...
Posted: 4/10/2003, 4:25 pm
by dumbandjaded13
so this second photo here shows that most iraqi people didnt come out to see the statue topple... hmmmm, so most of the people decided not to come out into the streets, er, in the middle of a war, and get smashed by a toppling statue... yep, that really shows they don't want saddam out or america in... or it simply shows that when tanks are rolling around a gunfire can be heard on many street corners, you might choose to stay indoors... or instead go loot the government offices that have oppressed you for years...
Iraqi people are feeling like the US people in regards to the war... some are for it, some are against it, some have mixed feelings (who will rule? what does the US plan? Is saddam dead?, etc). Just like there is apathy here, im sure there is apathy there (probably not as much, but you get the point). YOU CANT GROUP AN ENTIRE COUNTRY into for or against terms. Just because someone is happy to see so many iraqis probably happier then they have been for awhile doesnt mean that same someone doesnt understand that some people wont like what has happened with the war.
One thing is for certain.... a HUGE population of iraqis are glad saddam is/will be out of power, doesnt matter how he was taken out of power... for that fact, im glad the war has taken place... i can rest easier knowing that MOST of the iraqis (a huge MOST) are going to happier.
Posted: 4/10/2003, 5:11 pm
by happening fish
look at one of the comments from that site:
Some idiot wrote:Let this picture remind all of us how dangerous and effective propoganda can be in the wrong hands. Think about how effective a picture like this was in duping mainstream media that the Holocaust actually happened. If only a few brave sould had resisted back then, the world would know the truth about how members of the Zionist movement in 1943 actually killed their own members of "the tribe" and blamed the Germans. Now we have a Zionist state that is behind 9/11...what't will they do next?
.......
?!
Posted: 4/10/2003, 5:13 pm
by sandsleeper
hey, he's right.
and i'm miles davis. 
Posted: 4/10/2003, 5:29 pm
by happening fish
The most telling thing I ever saw was when that soldier draped the US flag over Saddam's head, then quickly realized his faux-pas and replaced it with an Iraqi flag. If that doesn't give it away, I don't know what does.
Posted: 4/10/2003, 10:10 pm
by Bandalero
the way the flag was drapped over the statues head was done wrong too, the stars have to be on top. man there's some vets that were pissed off when they saw that.
Posted: 4/11/2003, 7:52 am
by starvingeyes
reno when hitler's men were tried for war crimes, one of the greatest charges against them was that they led an agressive war.
iniating war against another country is always, always, always wrong.
Posted: 4/11/2003, 12:46 pm
by thirdhour
freedom is not real freedom when it is forced upon a nation.
what i meant by americanised, is that these people may begin to lose their identity as iraqis if they are forced to change their government so quickly. Other countries, US or otherwise, will be involved in the forming of this new government. The result will be a country that is only superficially self-governed and will really become a pawn for western nations.
Posted: 4/11/2003, 1:34 pm
by Corey
Mr. Saad Salman was born in Baghdad in 1950. He fled Iraq to come to France 30 years ago, after having been tortured and imprisoned because of his political opposition to Saddam’s regime.
Is Mr. Salman against the war (the only question journalists seem to have to ask)? Let’s read what he has to say. Because this man is an Iraqi, and he decently can speak about his country better than any of us.
In an interview given to the free daily newspaper 20 Minutes:
- Why do you support the US?
- Because Saddam’s regime is worse than a dictatorship. It is a barbarity. What should we be afraid of concerning the US? Are they going to destroy the civil society? It doesn’t exist anymore. Are they going to destroy cities? Saddam already did this.
Posted: 4/11/2003, 2:01 pm
by mosaik
corey... so what?
Posted: 4/11/2003, 2:24 pm
by Bandalero
starving eyes wrote:reno when hitler's men were tried for war crimes, one of the greatest charges against them was that they led an agressive war.
iniating war against another country is always, always, always wrong.
and genocide was something that they must have left out during those proceedings. c'mon man, even Japan is getting back their right to strike pre-empatively.(sp?) it's wrong to stand idly by and let insane people hurt the people your suppose to protect. if your an elected official and you honestly belive that you should be removed from office.
Posted: 4/11/2003, 2:47 pm
by Corey
blue & copper wrote:corey... so what?
It is my response to thirdhour's assumption that the US is trying to take away the Iraqi's customs and way of life.