ClumsyMonkey.net

Doug Bin Laden wrote:some interesting stats:

- More than 1,200,000 civilians in Iraq have died since the start of the Gulf War, when Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990 (Source: United Nations and Iraq).

- An estimated 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died during Operation Desert Storm between January 17, 1991 and February 28, 1991 (Source: News Reports).

[source - the national gulf war resource center]

12 civillians per soldier. does anybody else see a problem with this?

And of all the accusations hurled against the West in its treatment of Iraq, the most damning is the human cost of sanctions. According to many peace groups, humanitarian organizations and politicians, sanctions have killed 500,000 Iraqi children. The total death toll from sanctions amounts to a million and a half innocent people.

Are these figures credible?

Only if you believe Saddam Hussein.

The truth is that these numbers come straight from Iraq's mighty propaganda factory. What gives them credibility is that they were endorsed in a 1999 report by Unicef. What's not so well-known is that the report was co-authored by the Iraqi health ministry, and all the statistics were supplied by the Iraqi government.

The first person to debunk these numbers was an Iraq expert named Amatzia Baram. In a lengthy analysis in The Middle East Journal, he revealed that there was no actual body count. Despite claims that 4,000 or 5,000 or 7,561 children were dying every month from sanctions, Iraqi officials simply made the numbers up. They did it by subtracting the population in 1997 from what they thought the population should have been, and blamed sanctions for the difference. Mr. Baram reached a different conclusion: "Most of the persons missing in 1997 according to the Iraqi claim were never born."

one last question. if the US is so intent on helping the world, then why will they not sign the anti landmine treaty? Landmines can't tell if the person they are going to kill is a soldier or just a farmer trying to make enough food for his family to survive. Landmines can't tell when a war is over. I have seen first-hand the horrors of landmines and know they must stop. These kids weren't even born when the war was going on, but they are now crippled for life.

In June 1991, the U.S. estimated that more than 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died, 300,000 were wounded, 150,000 deserted and 60,000 were taken prisoner. Many human rights groups claimed a much higher number of Iraqis were killed in action. According to Baghdad, civilian casualties numbered more than 35,000. However, since the war, some scholars have concluded that the number of Iraqi soldiers who were killed was significantly less than initially reported.

According to the book War and Public Health by the American Public Health Association, between 50,000 and 100,000 Iraqi soldiers were killed in the Gulf War and between 2,500 and 3,500 civilians were killed during the Gulf War bombing campaign. After the bombing campaign ended, civilian deaths rose to 111,000, including 70,000 children, due in part to damaged medical facilities and shortages of medicines. Landmines, unexploded ordnance, and anti-personnel bombs from the Gulf War continue to kill or maim Iraqi civilians, especially children.

WHAT ABOUT THE FINAL IRAQI DEATH TOLL ?

v Greepeace Assessment: (analyst William Arkin)

... The 43 Day War killed up to 140,000 Iraqis, an average of 3000 per day, or

three times the daily death rate during the Vietnam War

... 1000 continue to die each week, will bring the total to 200,000

v US Deptartment of Defense estimates on soldiers were:

... 100,000 killed

... 300,000 wounded

v Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)

... released 22May91 to Natural Resources Defense Council

... 100,000 to 120,000 Iraqi soldiers killed

... 150,000 troops deserted

... did not account for the 60,000 to 80,000 that were POW's

v Ken Brower Military Analyst

... DIA's estimate is preposterous

... estimates that 32,000 were Killed

... US troops report only burying 450 Iraqi's

... During WWII 4 tons bombs/fatality

... Gulf War expended 88,000 tons of bombs

> 2.75 tons per fatality for 32,000 KIA

v 343 Allied war deaths

... 145 Americans killed in combat

... 121 Americans killed by accidents

v Dallas Morning News Summary (12Jan92, pg22A), summarized that the

total was in fact far less than the DIA's 100,000 estimate. It notes that some

analysts believe that as few as 8,000 Iraqi dead could have been achieved in

the KTO based on extrapolations from casualty figures of past wars. The

Iraqi force was exaggerated, not the 600,000 briefed, but more like

225,000. From that 65,000 were accounted for as prisoners, thus leaving

around 25,000 to 50,000 to be casualties.

reno_ruelas wrote:5) very very true. anyone who tries to force their beliefs on another person should be put in jail. This Palistinian/Israel issue is about religion, it's been going on for so long that other issues are being piled onto it, but the main reason is religion and i find it childish.