ClumsyMonkey.net

half jill wrote:roll, eh.

ummm yes... thats what i meant to type... you know... cuz one needs to roll joints and all... it uhh... was a pun

Neil wrote:

Bandalero wrote:
WHAT!? the crash killed him. And he was driving impaired on both pot and alcohol. to say one killed him and not the other is bogus and you know it.

Driving drunk or high is still an altered state of mind, and both instances are not safe.

You find me statistics showing of vehicular related deaths caused by driving under the influence of marijuana, and not alcohol, and I'll continue this with you. You're whacked. Seriously.

i would not say he's whacked by any means. if marijuana alters a person's state of mind, then that person is not safe behind the wheel. it's 'whacked' (to use your terminology) to think that a high person is a perfectly safe driver. maybe the effects on the body aren't as severe as alcohol (i wouldn't know, as i've never touched any drug), but i would never go as far to say that marijuana can be ruled out as a factor if a person is injured or killed while driving under the influence of both marijuana and alcohol.

Neil wrote:

Bandalero wrote:
WHAT!? the crash killed him. And he was driving impaired on both pot and alcohol. to say one killed him and not the other is bogus and you know it.

Driving drunk or high is still an altered state of mind, and both instances are not safe.

You find me statistics showing of vehicular related deaths caused by driving under the influence of marijuana, and not alcohol, and I'll continue this with you. You're whacked. Seriously.

In Texas they're slightly lower than alcohol related deaths, as per my defensive driving course. I can probably get those stats somewhere. And mind you that is because it is illegal. if it were legalized, it could be assumed that the deaths related to driving while impaired would jump, even slightly.

do you have any information that would contest that assumption?

You tell em' Reno!

I have a story that supports your claim.

Recently in Rochester, a man high on weed was driving the wrong way down the highway causing a head on collision killing 2 kids.

http://www.rnews.com/print.cfm?id=49512

Neil wrote:

How are you even trying to argue this?

DUI offences aren't just for alcohol but for most forms of illegal drugs, marijuana included. How you believe it might somehow be ok to drive while in an altered state of pot mind rather than an altered state of alcohol mind is a bit beyond me.

I wouldn't trust someone high on weed to walk my dog, let alone drive a car.

I don't even have a dog.

Does it really matter whether it's worse to drive high or drunk? I think we can all agree that people shouldn't be under the influence of any substance that alters your state of mind while driving or operating any sort of machinery in general. With that said, I think both are okay in moderation. I smoke pot, I also drink but I haven't driven after doing either of those...but there are still people out there who will. With that said, marijuana isn't illegal because of the noble cause to save people's lives. It was a political/economic decision.
(http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/ ... legal.html)

Quantity also makes a difference, you can drink so little alcohol that you may as well have had a Coke or smoked enough pot to make it a glorified cigarette so everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. If you look into the prohobition era where the mafia starts smuggling booze, it created an entirely new subculture of social stasis. In the 13 years that the prohibition existed in the US, the mafia earned enough money to live off its profit for decades afterwards. Can you imagine how wealthy we have made drug lords?

frogger wrote:Can you imagine how wealthy we have made drug lords?

From pot alone? Not very. Given that your average Joe can grow it in a window sill box and it doesn't require any refinement process. It's cheap, easy to procure, requires almost no processing and a lot of people look on it as legal anyways.

Korzic wrote:

Neil wrote:

How are you even trying to argue this?

DUI offences aren't just for alcohol but for most forms of illegal drugs, marijuana included. How you believe it might somehow be ok to drive while in an altered state of pot mind rather than an altered state of alcohol mind is a bit beyond me.

There is no arguing. Altered state or not.....all you need to do is look at the statistics. As I am typing this message, at least five people have possibly been involved in an automobile accident involving alcohol.

How you can seem to think that driving while high is just as bad as driving drunk; is beyond me.

Neil wrote:

Korzic wrote:

Neil wrote:

How are you even trying to argue this?

DUI offences aren't just for alcohol but for most forms of illegal drugs, marijuana included. How you believe it might somehow be ok to drive while in an altered state of pot mind rather than an altered state of alcohol mind is a bit beyond me.

There is no arguing. Altered state or not.....all you need to do is look at the statistics. As I am typing this message, at least five people have possibly been involved in an automobile accident involving alcohol.

How you can seem to think that driving while high is just as bad as driving drunk; is beyond me.

That's the equivalent of saying that Canadian drivers are better than American drivers because there are less accidents in Canada. Clearly, the availability of alcohol is a major factor in why there are more alcohol related deaths on the road than pot related deaths just as there are more accidents in the United States because there are more cars on the road. If you were able to get pot at your local corner store and supermarket, how many more pot related deaths would there be?

Neil wrote: There is no arguing. Altered state or not.....all you need to do is look at the statistics. As I am typing this message, at least five people have possibly been involved in an automobile accident involving alcohol.

How you can seem to think that driving while high is just as bad as driving drunk; is beyond me.

Funny, because you're not using statistics at all. There are more people driving on the road drunk than there are high. Therefore, the probability of an accident involving someone drinking is higher. And as Reno suggested, this is probably because alcohol is legal. People go to bars on their way home from work, drive home after parties that have beer, etc, etc. If marijuana was legal, you would have pot bars or whatever and therefore more people on the road that were high. Then you could make a fair comparison as to which substance is more dangerous to drivers.

With your usage of statistics I could make the argument that dogs are better drivers than humans because there are far fewer accidents involving dogs behind the wheel.

Fido's an awesome driver.

Woah where the fuck did Corey come from? Welcome back sir.

Korzic wrote:

frogger wrote:Can you imagine how wealthy we have made drug lords?

From pot alone? Not very. Given that your average Joe can grow it in a window sill box and it doesn't require any refinement process. It's cheap, easy to procure, requires almost no processing and a lot of people look on it as legal anyways.

Most can, but how many do? Besides that, since it's so easy to grow it just means that there's no overhead. The damn plant is like a freaking weed. Besides that, if you believe all that crap about it being a gateway drug then the point is valid. Even still, I still believe that producers/suppliers have made more money off pot during the last 50-60 years than the mafia did during prohibiition.

weed is like a weed!

Corey wrote:
Funny, because you're not using statistics at all. There are more people driving on the road drunk than there are high. Therefore, the probability of an accident involving someone drinking is higher. And as Reno suggested, this is probably because alcohol is legal. People go to bars on their way home from work, drive home after parties that have beer, etc, etc. If marijuana was legal, you would have pot bars or whatever and therefore more people on the road that were high. Then you could make a fair comparison as to which substance is more dangerous to drivers.

With your usage of statistics I could make the argument that dogs are better drivers than humans because there are far fewer accidents involving dogs behind the wheel.

There is no sense in using statistics.....when there is barely even a statistic involving weed induced accidents.

I'm not trying to say you're all mental......I have three friends who drive high (all the 'effin time) and I"ve never seen them do any shotty driving, behind the wheel, ever. Now, get them same three drunk and lets see if they all make it home.

so you're basing your entire argument off of three people that you personally know? that's pretty weak.

oh, and how many people have no issues with driving drunk? tons. i've known people who've made a habit of driving drunk, and they've made their way home. if i were to base an argument that drinking and driving is safe off of those people, i'd have a very flawed argument. you can't use these three people you know to back you up. yeah, sure, they make it home fine, just like a lot of people that drive drunk.....but a lot of people that drive drunk sure as hell don't make it home fine.

if a person is impaired, under any circumstance, they are not safe to drive. end of story. if you think otherwise, well, then you're just taking your life in your own hands.

I never said my entire argument is based on three people. Don't put words in my mouth.

Further........this was not intended to become a discussion on whether or not weed is even okay to drive and use. I only wanted to discuss legalization. I do not support people driving and smoking weed, shooting heroin, eating LSD, or drinking.

I'm talking straight up.....sitting in your basement.....smoking a bowl. Is it truely that bad?